Reason for concern

[Jackalope]

Honda is paying the top rate and good benefits. They have to to get good employees (they must compete with union wages). If prevailing wages didn't exist There would be no wage "bar" set. Look at most any area in the country without a strong union presence and hourly wages of Union and non union workers are always lower. Honda employees r only making good money because of union established wages. I'm assuming in the south they r buying the best employees like they r here......without union wages life would be like the fast-food industry for unskilled factory workers......

I know the unions would like to claim they set the wage and compensation bar but that's just not the case. There are plenty of industries without a union component that have very good salaries. Information Technology workers, for instance, have never been represented by a union component. Yet they continue to be at the top of the growth, compensation and employment scale on job reports. If we follow the logic that unions set the wage bar and without it the industry would drive down salaries, then IT people should be making McDonalds wages. Yet they aren't. Neither are other heavy certification sectors not represented by unions such as CPA, auditors, salespeople, corporate legal departments, human resources etc. There are tons of none union fields with high salary components.

 

[Chass]

I know the unions would like to claim they set the wage and compensation bar but that's just not the case. There are plenty of industries without a union component that have very good salaries. Information Technology workers, for instance, have never been represented by a union component. Yet they continue to be at the top of the growth, compensation and employment scale on job reports. If we follow the logic that unions set the wage bar and without it the industry would drive down salaries, then IT people should be making McDonalds wages. Yet they aren't. Neither are other heavy certification sectors not represented by unions such as CPA, auditors, salespeople, corporate legal departments, human resources etc. There are tons of none union fields with high salary components.

Not sure about that I'm a union backed IT worker. And if it werent for the union I would still be making nearly 50% of my current wages for a lot more responsibility. Which would be the McDonalds wages you're talking about. In areas where there is no competition, they get paid next to nothing. If you live in a major city though, yeah I'm sure they get paid well since they have so many options to choose from with fair wages.

 

[giles]

Stakeholders panel...yup, that’ll work

 

[giles]

Right now in the construction industry, unions do make the industry standard. Those not wanting to comply are wanting to change the game. That is what this is about.

Can’t beat them, join them.

 

[Jackalope]

Not sure about that I'm a union backed IT worker. And if it werent for the union I would still be making nearly 50% of my current wages for a lot more responsibility. Which would be the McDonalds wages you're talking about. In areas where there is no competition, they get paid next to nothing. If you live in a major city though, yeah I'm sure they get paid well since they have so many options to choose from with fair wages.

Fair wages is what the industry is willing to pay based upon supply and demand. This is why McDonald's workers are paid minimum wage, because that's what their labor is worth based upon the supply of workers. Demanding more than that has only caused them to be replaced with automation because they overstepped their value. I was looking at positions in Idaho last week and noticed that most of them had been open for more than 30 days and paid considerably more than here in Ohio despite a lower cost of living. This is because they're having trouble finding a local candidate, demand is surpassing supply and driving up compensation value.

Paying the value a position is actually worth, and forcibably over-inflating the value of a position, are two totally different things. Unions are notorious for doing the latter. This is why there are a ton of people in Mexico working for GM instead of the union guy in Ohio who somehow managed to make 90k a year tightening alternator bolts on a line because he's been there for 19 years. This isn't big bad industry driving down wages to enslave workers, its simple economics.

 

[Steelheadtracker]

No wonder unions are so liberal, they have that same "it's my way or the highway" mentality. Same people pushing for 15 dollar minimum wage.

 

[Jackalope]

Stakeholders panel...yup, that’ll work

No way you can tell me that the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers union can somehow create an apprenticeship program that trains people to operate a bucket truck better than American Electric Power and Ohio Edison could. Or a union can train an aircraft mechanic better than Boeing and Lockheed could.

 

[Jackalope]

Right now in the construction industry, unions do make the industry standard. Those not wanting to comply are wanting to change the game. That is what this is about.

Can’t beat them, join them.

And that's why they're fighting this. It isn't about threatening the future ability of kids to get a skilled trade as the unions are claiming. It's all about those skilled trade kids being trained and not part of the union. It's all about maintaining union control over the labor market to force industry to deal with unions. The biggest threat to unions is a plethora of skilled trade non-union candidates. And who better to create and train those people than the very industries themselves that need those workers.

 

[Bowkills]

The biggest threat to unions is skilled workers trained by employers to fill the demand of industry needs..........and pay them way less money.

 

[Jackalope]

The biggest threat to unions is skilled workers trained by employers to fill the demand of industry needs..........and pay them way less money.

Well if the union apprenticeship programs are the gold standard as they claim, and these new programs are garbage, then the union guys have nothing to fear then right? Their "gold standard" training and skill will require companies to pay their existing value. Companies are going to pay what the labor is worth based in the market, if the union guy is really that good then they'll seek to hire the union trained guys and not the private industry trained guys.

If this is like the unions claim, then the union guys should welcome this with open arms as it will prove that the their union superior value and skill is valid and true. The "gold standard" they claim to possess should be unfazed by such a silly program.

 

[Bowkills]

Well if the union apprenticeship programs are the gold standard as they claim, and these new programs are garbage, then the union guys have nothing to fear then right? Their "gold standard" training and skill will require companies to pay their existing value. Companies are going to pay what the labor is worth based in the market, if the union guy is really that good then they'll seek to hire the union trained guys and not the private industry trained guys.

If this is like the unions claim, then the union guys should welcome this with open arms as it will prove that the their union superior value and skill is valid and true. The "gold standard" they claim to possess should be unfazed by such a silly program.

I really don't give to shits what programs are created and out there. People can say I can do it and buy their card and still get hired and fired hour one on our jobs. Unions were formed to stop harsh labor and killing working conditions and lesson the gap from rich to poor. Some union jobs take complete advantage but without them everyone will suffer unless your in the upper ranks, skilled or unskilled.

 

[Jackalope]

I really don't give to shits what programs are created and out there. People can say I can do it and buy their card and still get hired and fired hour one on our jobs. Unions were formed to stop harsh labor and killing working conditions and lesson the gap from rich to poor. Some union jobs take complete advantage but without them everyone will suffer unless your in the upper ranks, skilled or unskilled.

This isn't the 30s anymore. There are plenty of professions and people making great wages and benefits who aren't suffering or being killed due to lack of a union.

People should be allowed to pick up a skilled trade and be certified in that trade without having to be part of a union. The main intent of the bill however is to create apprenticeship programs in areas that don't traditionally have them in order to teach people skills and get them in the workforce.

 

[giles]

That is how you see it.

 

[GoetsTalon]

Busted out my old local 14 shirt for this thread lol! We built anywhere from 1200 to 1500 rear wheel drive tranny's a night with a 99.8% to 100% of them making it past the test station. Was trained on the main line by some guys that liked to go to the bar for lunch a lot lol.

 

[Jackalope]

That is how you see it.

All I see is an organised labor racket that fears skilled tradesmen whom they can't force to join their club. I see a fear that private industry will be allowed to train and employ competent tradesmen not beheld to a union. I see an organization who is willing to say that unless you want to do it our way, and fall in line with our club, then you have no business in this trade.

This reaction by unions has nothing to do with protecting workers, training people, making people's lives better, or employing future American workers. It is nothing more than trying to protect their stranglehold on skilled trade labor in an effort to remain relevant.

 

[Jackalope]

Busted out my old local 14 shirt for this thread lol! We built anywhere from 1200 to 1500 rear wheel drive tranny's a night with a 99.8% to 100% of them making it past the test station. Was trained on the main line by some guys that liked to go to the bar for lunch a lot lol. View attachment 84464

Nice. Heck of an accomplishment.

In my line of work we provide 99.999% system uptime to over 1,000 critical care medical facilities, hospice, and addiction service providers utilizing a 50 million dollar compute environment in two geographically dispersed regions. Not a union card in the whole company. We too visit the occasional gentleman's club for lunch.

I say that to say this. Quality, reliability, skill, and ingenuity is not something only union shops can lay claim to. Those traits exist in a whole world of other nonunion trained professions. Thank God for those professions seeing the value in training, certifications, and accreditation of skilled work, and welcoming new employees regardless of how they achieved their qualifications or affiliations.

 

[giles]

Nice. Heck of an accomplishment.

In my line of work we provide 99.999% system uptime to over 1,000 critical care medical facilities, hospice, and addiction service providers utilizing a 50 million dollar compute environment in two geographically dispersed regions. Not a union card in the whole company. We too visit the occasional gentleman's club for lunch.

I say that to say this. Quality, reliability, skill, and ingenuity is not something only union shops can lay claim to. Those traits exist in a whole world of other nonunion trained professions. Thank God for those professions seeing the value in training, certifications, and accreditation of skilled work, and welcoming new employees regardless of how they achieved their qualifications or affiliations.

 

[Steelheadtracker]

Unions and communism are essentially one in the same. In communism, the government owns the means of production and therefore sets the prices. This is what the unions are doing except with workers. They own the labor pool. In communism it is the proletariat (worker) and the bourgeoisie (capitalists). They believe the workers are being taken advantage of by the capitalists and that communism is a way to fight that. This is the unionistic view. They make you believe you are the proletariat and that they are protecting you and keeping your wages high and in turn the union members support them and give them exclusive power. The union is essentially the dictator. This is why the unions vote exclusively democrat, because they buy the votes from members thinking daddy union and daddy big government is just watching out for me. This is exactly how the democrats buy votes with the welfare system ect. The union hall sure did a good job protecting the GM plant workers in richland county. They protected them so good the GM plant is now 300 plus acres of nothing but concrete and weeds.

 

[Jamie]

I have to say that, GULP, I agree with Joe across the board on this subject. I can agree to disagree about organized labor, but the facts are hard to deny here.

that is a brilliant analogy, Steelheadtracker, and spot on.

 

[Jackalope]

Unions and communism are essentially one in the same. In communism, the government owns the means of production and therefore sets the prices. This is what the unions are doing except with workers. They own the labor pool. In communism it is the proletariat (worker) and the bourgeoisie (capitalists). They believe the workers are being taken advantage of by the capitalists and that communism is a way to fight that. This is the unionistic view. They make you believe you are the proletariat and that they are protecting you and keeping your wages high and in turn the union members support them and give them exclusive power. The union is essentially the dictator. This is why the unions vote exclusively democrat, because they buy the votes from members thinking daddy union and daddy big government is just watching out for me. This is exactly how the democrats buy votes with the welfare system ect. The union hall sure did a good job protecting the GM plant workers in richland county. They protected them so good the GM plant is now 300 plus acres of nothing but concrete and weeds.

Fantastic analogy and very well written. I'm envious of your ability to put words to print.