The only true way to age deer is by looking at the teeth. So, let's all learn a little something by posting pics of teeth.
How old is this deer?
How old is this deer?
NSFW (Graphic Pics) - Age this deer...
- Thread starter giles
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How's it NSFW though? That's just for scantly clad women.
I just added it to the title. I agree, not the most NSFW thing, but then again guys like @Dannmann801 work in spaces where you never know what someone will think of pics like these.
triple_duece
Ragin Cajun.
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They all dead. Teeth aging is subjective after they turn 3. Teeth wear different from all areas. Take for instance, Texas deer eat feed on the sandy ground from day one. Woods and ag deer wear differently also. It’s just an educated guess. Even sending the tooth off for rings is not exact.
Just food for thought.
I can tell you this, every jaw bone you examine has seen it’s last day. That is 100%
Just food for thought.
I can tell you this, every jaw bone you examine has seen it’s last day. That is 100%
Looking at these teeth, I think this deer is 3 or 4. Looking at the body...nope. Rack, NOPE! He had a big grey head though. Just really has me confused. Either way, yes, hims dead. I should go pull it out of the trash and clean it up with the skull. Start keeping them for future reference.
cementum annuli aging of a tooth is extremely accurate. and there is not really any contest between this and molar wear aging. if it's good enough for biologists for data collection, then it's good enough for me. although I can honestly say that I don't give a shit what the age of deer I've killed is other than simply curiosity after the fact. I either want to kill the deer or I don't. you won't catch me deliberating on whether or not "he needs another year".
triple_duece
Ragin Cajun.
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at1010
*Supporting Member*
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Not trying to be a know it all but the more I read about jaw bone aging the less I believe in the accuracy in the method.
I have listened to several biologist over the past few years talk on podcast and/or write articles on large studies conducted in TX and other areas - where they are just not happy with the inconsistency in JAW bone aging. One of the biologist spoke about how they had 3 or 4 top biologist aging the same jaw bones, they all came up with varying ages. Also, you often get a range 3-4, that to me is quixotic!! At least in Ohio a buck that is 3, that than makes it to 4 is a total different caliber of deer! Also a 3 year old body on the far majority of deer, is noticeably more in shape, than the 4 year old deer. For example a 3 year old deer is only at around 80% (in prime habitat and nutrition) of their antler genetic potential. At 4 - assuming all variables are same as at 3- that deer will reach 90% antler growth potential. If you are gathering data across your properties and you keep getting "4 year olds", you could easily draw a wrong conclusion on the overall potential of your neighborhood - especially if the deer you harvested are actually 3.
Here is a great resource about the genetics and antler development potential via MSU deer lab: https://www.msudeer.msstate.edu/nutrition-and-genetics.php
Although cementum annuli is not 100%, it is around 80+% accuracy rate. This is more similar to counting rings on a tree. Again you are going to have some variances in responses but should be a far more accurate reading then the subjective jaw bone or even body aging methodology.
All aging is a bit subjective but I personally like
1. Body age
2. cementum annuli
3. jaw bone
Just my 2 cents!
I have listened to several biologist over the past few years talk on podcast and/or write articles on large studies conducted in TX and other areas - where they are just not happy with the inconsistency in JAW bone aging. One of the biologist spoke about how they had 3 or 4 top biologist aging the same jaw bones, they all came up with varying ages. Also, you often get a range 3-4, that to me is quixotic!! At least in Ohio a buck that is 3, that than makes it to 4 is a total different caliber of deer! Also a 3 year old body on the far majority of deer, is noticeably more in shape, than the 4 year old deer. For example a 3 year old deer is only at around 80% (in prime habitat and nutrition) of their antler genetic potential. At 4 - assuming all variables are same as at 3- that deer will reach 90% antler growth potential. If you are gathering data across your properties and you keep getting "4 year olds", you could easily draw a wrong conclusion on the overall potential of your neighborhood - especially if the deer you harvested are actually 3.
Here is a great resource about the genetics and antler development potential via MSU deer lab: https://www.msudeer.msstate.edu/nutrition-and-genetics.php
Although cementum annuli is not 100%, it is around 80+% accuracy rate. This is more similar to counting rings on a tree. Again you are going to have some variances in responses but should be a far more accurate reading then the subjective jaw bone or even body aging methodology.
All aging is a bit subjective but I personally like
1. Body age
2. cementum annuli
3. jaw bone
Just my 2 cents!
Interesting stuff. Keep talking folks. Maybe that is why this jaw bone has me totally confused. I just can't comprehend that this deer could've possibly been 3-4. We will have to check cams to see if he's on any of them.
I don't have any good pics of him. @Redneckfucker did you get any good body pics of this deer? This is all I have. Long face on him. We compared it to a 3 year old last night and this deer had at least an inch on him.
I'm in different region than you. In my area, 99% of the time I would guess that deer is 2.5
Spencie
Senior Member
Maybe tooth aging has come a long way since 1986 but I killed a 136” 11 point that the DNR aged at 1.5. I would have almost believed 2.5. Most likely 3.5. So I don’t put a lot of stock in any of it. I know that from running lots of cameras that most deer are older than people think.
Dave, that deer is 2.5 years old. Here’s why:
1. Adult deer have 6 teeth.., 3 premolars, 3 molars. 5 or less teeth erupted means it’s a fawn. Yours has 6 teeth, so it’s at least 1.5.
2. Yearlings (1.5 yr old) do have 6 teeth showing, but the third premolar will either be a worn down tricuspid tooth (baby tooth) or a shiny white new bicuspid tooth. Yours has a bicuspid 3rd premolar, and its stained like all the other teeth around it... so it’s at least 2.5 years old.
3. By 3.5 years old, the 3rd molar (last tooth), which is a tricuspid, will be fully erupted above the gum line. The back cusp of that tooth will also be “cupped” in most cases. In the case of your jaw, the back molar does not appear to be fully erupted. Also look at the lingual (tongue-side) crest of molar #1 (4th tooth)... Yours appears fairly pointy/sharp and the width of the dentine (dark) is less than the thickness of the enamel (white). That’s indicative of a 2.5 yr old. If the lingual crest was a bit rounded down, and the width of dentine was as wide or wider than the thickness of the enamel, it would indicate 3.5 or older.
A couple points...
Yes, aging deer by tooth wear is somewhat subjective. Some deer chew differently, or have different diets, etc. But aging deer that are 3.5 or younger is almost a slam dunk. The subjectivity only comes into play on deer that are older... which is rare in Ohio. Very few bucks live beyond 4.5 years old in most areas. If you have a buck that’s older, you more than likely have pictures and a history of that deer, so then you might as well send in tooth to have the annuli counted. Does tend to reach 4.5+ years old more often than bucks, for obvious reasons. Also, it’s easier to age a deer looking at its teeth if you rinse the blood off of them.
1. Adult deer have 6 teeth.., 3 premolars, 3 molars. 5 or less teeth erupted means it’s a fawn. Yours has 6 teeth, so it’s at least 1.5.
2. Yearlings (1.5 yr old) do have 6 teeth showing, but the third premolar will either be a worn down tricuspid tooth (baby tooth) or a shiny white new bicuspid tooth. Yours has a bicuspid 3rd premolar, and its stained like all the other teeth around it... so it’s at least 2.5 years old.
3. By 3.5 years old, the 3rd molar (last tooth), which is a tricuspid, will be fully erupted above the gum line. The back cusp of that tooth will also be “cupped” in most cases. In the case of your jaw, the back molar does not appear to be fully erupted. Also look at the lingual (tongue-side) crest of molar #1 (4th tooth)... Yours appears fairly pointy/sharp and the width of the dentine (dark) is less than the thickness of the enamel (white). That’s indicative of a 2.5 yr old. If the lingual crest was a bit rounded down, and the width of dentine was as wide or wider than the thickness of the enamel, it would indicate 3.5 or older.
A couple points...
Yes, aging deer by tooth wear is somewhat subjective. Some deer chew differently, or have different diets, etc. But aging deer that are 3.5 or younger is almost a slam dunk. The subjectivity only comes into play on deer that are older... which is rare in Ohio. Very few bucks live beyond 4.5 years old in most areas. If you have a buck that’s older, you more than likely have pictures and a history of that deer, so then you might as well send in tooth to have the annuli counted. Does tend to reach 4.5+ years old more often than bucks, for obvious reasons. Also, it’s easier to age a deer looking at its teeth if you rinse the blood off of them.
triple_duece
Ragin Cajun.
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I can tell deer on cams here after looking at them and knowing the age structure. After 4 would be a wag without history.
A 1.5 year old is so obvious based on tooth replacement, there’s no way the DNR got that wrong. You would be very surprised how many nice bucks are only 1.5 years old in Ohio. Genetics and nutrition are incredible.
@giles Actually, looking at it again, that 3rd premolar doesn’t appear as stained as I originally thought. It’s very possible this buck could be a tweener... meaning he lost his baby tooth well before most “normal” yearlings. This happens when a fawn is born early, and they’re a bit ahead of other members of their cohort. Rinse it off if you can and take a couple more pics.
Spencie
Senior Member
Like I said maybe it’s come a long way. You are also talking about the ODNR.
That was a potential state record if it was 1.5. The biologist didn’t believe it either and got another to check it out too. I was 18 and didn’t care....I had my first good buck.