Heroin: it's gettin waaaaay outta hand!!!

[Jackalope]

The real responsibility for opiod dependency lies squarely with physicians and pharma reps to include the VA. NPR had a special on the radio last year and mind you this is a year after the Feds started cracking down on doctors. They said there was 104 opioid pain pill prescriptions per 100 people in ohio. That's a staggering number. For number sake let's say 1 in 4 people are addicted to pills which is a huge number, that person has 4 legal prescriptions. It's likely 1 in 10 people with 10 prescriptions. What happened was they started cracking down on docs and the pill supply started to dwindle. They couldn't get their own scripts so they turned to buying them. Street value on oxy was 20 bucks a pill and these people take 4-5 at a time and maybe 20 a day.

Enter heroin. Cheap. 3-5 bucks a hit. Where's it all coming from? Well, a very large portion is originating in Afghanistan. You remember that country that we blew to shit for over a decade and our pussy president pulled out of before the job was done like a viable government and rebuilt infrastructure.

Narcam should not be taxpayer funded. Police, fire, etc should not be carrying it rather that money should be used in community counseling meetings. It should be available over the counter for addicts and their family to purchase. EMS should only be allowed to use it once on a person, after that they're mandated to a chemical dependency program. It can be used a second time on people actively attending chemical dependency meetings. Screw these people who use taxpayer funded Narcam as their safety net. Fuck em.

Manslaughter charges for those dealing heroin if it can be shown that a buyer ODd. No diferent that if I sold a 15 year old a pistol and he shot someone. Or how if two people break in a house and one gets killed the other is charged with murder. It's a death durring the comission if a felony.

The problem in ohio is this state is quickly turning to shit and the state and local governments rely on that shit population to stay afloat. So they pander to them. For example 44% of the population of springfield is unemployed. Most by choice and they live off welfare. You can't arrest and drive out half your population. For one you can't incarcerate that many people. And if you try to drive them out of town you won't have a town left. Manufacturing and factory jobs are gone and not coming back. And even if they do it won't be to ohio with their atrocious taxes and regulatory environment. These state and local government rely on these shitheads to stay afloat so it's only going to get worse just as it has been

 

[daleeman]

In Greene and Montgomery counties where I spend most of my time, my CCW permit and being a responsible armed citizen is far more important than the debate on if it addiction is an illness or a choice.
It's in your area, your cities, your schools even a lot of families are dealing with it.
Junkies will rob you, beat you, rape your family members.
Our politicians suck, they are more worried about keeping things on the QT for staying in office than ridding our cities of crime.
Get mad, get real mad about it and tell those elected officials they are failing.

 

[daleeman]

>>Narcam should not be taxpayer funded. Police, fire, etc should not be carrying it rather that money should be used in community counseling meetings. It should be available over the counter for addicts and their family to purchase. EMS should only be allowed to use it once on a person, after that they're mandated to a chemical dependency program. It can be used a second time on people actively attending chemical dependency meetings. Screw these people who use taxpayer funded Narcam as their safety net. Fuck em. <<

NARCAM is over the counter for those that want to buy it. Learned that when I took NARCAM training. Just a FYI.

 

[at1010]

All I can tell you, that all the people I know who have died from OD were trying to get clean. They had stopped using, they had been in meetings, they had been clean for a year or more sometimes. They broke down, and used again....that was the last time they ever did anything.

I am not sure if it is defining it as a disease is the best but we are splitting hairs talking about that. I can tell you I fully empathize with someone who is that dependent on a drug. Something that you can quit for a year, and still want to go back too it. Watch intervention sometime, it'll open your eyes to HOW bad these people WANT to stop drinking, smoking crack, shooting up, snorting,etc. They simply admit they cannot with support and help from their friends, families, and communities.

As you can see this is an outlying issue, I mean who wants to help support a drug addict, fuck it let em rot. (sarcasm).

 

[at1010]

The real responsibility for opiod dependency lies squarely with physicians and pharma reps to include the VA. NPR had a special on the radio last year and mind you this is a year after the Feds started cracking down on doctors. They said there was 104 opioid pain pill prescriptions per 100 people in ohio. That's a staggering number. For number sake let's say 1 in 4 people are addicted to pills which is a huge number, that person has 4 legal prescriptions. It's likely 1 in 10 people with 10 prescriptions. What happened was they started cracking down on docs and the pill supply started to dwindle. They couldn't get their own scripts so they turned to buying them. Street value on oxy was 20 bucks a pill and these people take 4-5 at a time and maybe 20 a day.

Enter heroin. Cheap. 3-5 bucks a hit. Where's it all coming from? Well, a very large portion is originating in Afghanistan. You remember that country that we blew to shit for over a decade and our pussy president pulled out of before the job was done like a viable government and rebuilt infrastructure.

Narcam should not be taxpayer funded. Police, fire, etc should not be carrying it rather that money should be used in community counseling meetings. It should be available over the counter for addicts and their family to purchase. EMS should only be allowed to use it once on a person, after that they're mandated to a chemical dependency program. It can be used a second time on people actively attending chemical dependency meetings. Screw these people who use taxpayer funded Narcam as their safety net. Fuck em.

Manslaughter charges for those dealing heroin if it can be shown that a buyer ODd. No diferent that if I sold a 15 year old a pistol and he shot someone. Or how if two people break in a house and one gets killed the other is charged with murder. It's a death durring the comission if a felony.

The problem in ohio is this state is quickly turning to shit and the state and local governments rely on that shit population to stay afloat. So they pander to them. For example 44% of the population of springfield is unemployed. Most by choice and they live off welfare. You can't arrest and drive out half your population. For one you can't incarcerate that many people. And if you try to drive them out of town you won't have a town left. Manufacturing and factory jobs are gone and not coming back. And even if they do it won't be to ohio with their atrocious taxes and regulatory environment. These state and local government rely on these shitheads to stay afloat so it's only going to get worse just as it has been

as always good post joe. You hit nail on head with first paragraph. Supply HIGH, Supply GONE, FIND SOURCE.

 

[Bigslam51]

I totally disagree with this. I smoke and drink lots of coffee. I am a nicotine and caffeine junkie. In the mornings, you best not even try and speak to me unless it is to hand me a cigarette and a cup of mud first.

Do I have a disease? No. Do I have a chemical imbalance? No. I have an addiction. HOWEVER, it is something that I choose to do. Obviously, over and over again.

Blaming addiction to drugs on a disease downplays it.......as if it can't be helped.

Once your that deep it no longer becomes a choice. I didn't know all you guys had your PhD in chemical dependency.

 

[Bigslam51]

I agree with what Al has said.

 

[bowhunter1023]

Once your that deep it no longer becomes a choice. I didn't know all you guys had your PhD in chemical dependency.

First off, this. If you've never been an addict (and most of you are because like it or not, caffeine and nicotine are drugs) then IMO, you have ZERO right to say definitively it's a choice. You are wrong in that statement. Choices get you to that point and can help get you out of addiction, but there's FAR more to it than simple choices. So be easy with your quickness to judge unless you've walked in those shoes.

Secondly, Joe nailed it once again. Big Pharma flooded the market with pills, which was facilitated by Washington and in conjunction with a drug war that's a massive failure. There's a HOST of other factors at play here too. It's a mess and our government has the majority of the blood on its hands IMO...

 

[at1010]

First off, this. If you've never been an addict (and most of you are because like it or not, caffeine and nicotine are drugs) then IMO, you have ZERO right to say definitively it's a choice. You are wrong in that statement. Choices get you to that point and can help get you out of addiction, but there's FAR more to it than simple choices. So be easy with your quickness to judge unless you've walked in those shoes.

Secondly, Joe nailed it once again. Big Pharma flooded the market with pills, which was facilitated by Washington and in conjunction with a drug war that's a massive failure. There's a HOST of other factors at play here too. It's a mess and our government has the majority of the blood on its hands IMO...

Exactly we have an entire thread about guys trying to quit chewing. Now imagine if that addiction was 1000 times stronger. Would you be able to just throw that tin away and never have another dip the rest of your life? Even if your buddy has a tin and your mowing the grass that day and a dip sounds so good? That last dip might kill you though......

It is clearly not an apples to apples comparison but hopefully it sheds some understand light on addiction.

 

[Quantum673]

I have a sister who is now 10 months clean. That is a drop in the bucket compared to the years and years of her using. I hope she is able to stay clean. Problem is that it only takes something as simple as her needing minor surgery and getting a vicoden for pain and she very well may fall right back into it. She has always had a dependant personality but was able to control it for the most part. This all changed about 10 years ago. She was a successful EMT and Paramedic. She had dedicated herself to helping others. She shattered her ankle jumping out of the back of the squad on a call. After several surgeries and many many pain meds her dependant personality took over. Once the pain med prescriptions ran out she continued to get black market pills. She was a full fledge user. This continued to escalate until she was a heroin junky. She lost everything. Job, family, house, cars, everything. She was now a common thief basically living on the street.

Was it a choice. Yep. It was a choice she made. But it was a choice she made with a poisoned brain. Opiates change the physical brain. They dull the sensory of the parts of the brain that determine right and wrong. Is that an excuse? Nope she made her bed and has had to sleep in it for years. I do not talk to her often due to all the stuff she has stole from our family. But I do hope she is able to stay clean.

The problem in America is multi-layered. Starts with doctors giving out pain pills like tic-tacs.
The legal system is next. Drug offenses need serious consequences. Make it where it is not worth it to deal drugs.
We have to treat the addicts. They need in patient treatment to start healing the brain. It takes months and months to reverse the brain damage done by the drugs.

My sister is 10 months clean and still lives in a half way house. Reason is she still has temptations so she chooses to stay close to her support system.

She will tell you that she does not blame anyone but herself for her choices. Once under the influence of opiates the brain starts to change and that makes the decision making process even harder.

 

[bowhunter1023]

Exactly we have an entire thread about guys trying to quit chewing. Now imagine if that addiction was 1000 times stronger. Would you be able to just throw that tin away and never have another dip the rest of your life? Even if your buddy has a tin and your mowing the grass that day and a dip sounds so good? That last dip might kill you though......

It is clearly not an apples to apples comparison but hopefully it sheds some understand light on addiction.

I can promise you some of our heaviest users of nicotine would have a new found respect for "choices" if today was the last day they'd have access to it or they'd lose everything. Same with caffeine. To think you'd just walk away without effects or temptation is ludicrous and when the drug in question alters your brain and is 1K times more addictive, get back to me about those choices...

 

[bowhunter1023]

Oh, and sugar. If you guys keep up with the latest research on sugar, science is now saying it impacts neural pathways in a very similar manner as opiates. So drop the sugar at the same as caffeine and nicotine. Do all that for 21 straight days, or months or years, and then come back and lecture about choices. Good luck.

 

[finelyshedded]

I was definitely addicted to nicotine and if I ever did it again would probably resort right back to having a dip of straight grizzley rough cut in my mouth 2/3'sof the day again. I totally agree with Joe as to how we've gotten here.

To respond to Jesse though, heroin can and will kill you after one try! It's been proven! These drug pushers have been using stronger chemicals knowing it can lead to more fatalities.

What baffles me is why would somebody who has never tried it who has no real additive vice going on at the time decide, "Hey, what the hell, I'll try it just this once!" How fugged up is that!!!

Red mentioned earlier about people huffing! That's fugged up TOO! What have we become as a society that we have to be fucked out of our mind to have a good time?!?SMH

 

[finelyshedded]

Oh, and sugar. If you guys keep up with the latest research on sugar, science is now saying it impacts neural pathways in a very similar manner as opiates. So drop the sugar at the same as caffeine and nicotine. Do all that for 21 straight days, or months or years, and then come back and lecture about choices. Good luck.

Yep!!!! TOTALLY AGREE with you on sugar Jesse! I'm one of em I'm afraid! Lol

I'm talking about making a choice about trying a drug knowing it's the "end of your life or as you know it!"

 

[Jackalope]

Exactly we have an entire thread about guys trying to quit chewing. Now imagine if that addiction was 1000 times stronger. Would you be able to just throw that tin away and never have another dip the rest of your life? Even if your buddy has a tin and your mowing the grass that day and a dip sounds so good? That last dip might kill you though......

It is clearly not an apples to apples comparison but hopefully it sheds some understand light on addiction.

Studies say that nicotine is just as addictive as heroine and about 50% of addicts report that smoking was just as hard if not harder to quit than heroine. I don't agree with those that say addiction is a choice as that goes against everything an addiction, however not seeking treatment once addicted is a choice. A hard one no doubt, but a choice to try to quit is a choice none the less.

 

[Dustinb80]

Wouldn't putting in that next chew, or lighting up that next cigarette be a choice as well though? Being addicted may not be a choice, but feeding the habit that makes you addicted is.

 

[bowhunter1023]

The potency here is irrelevant. Alcohol will kill you just as dead as nicotine, sugar and even heroin. Some drugs take longer, but they'll all kill you. We have guys chiming in like they're addiction experts and meanwhile, they are pickling livers with shitty beer, over working their pancreas/endocrine system with artifical sugars, damaging lungs and gums with tobacco and all the while, guzzling Mountain Dew or coffee for a pick me up. So in essence, you have drug addicts looking down at drug addicts. It's a massive hypocrisy to lecture someone on choices with a Bud Light in one hand and a Camel hanging out of their mouth...

Those in glass houses should not throw stones. I too was addicted to sugar and nicotine, probably alcohol at one point, still need caffeine and enjoy some of life's finer things in excess at times as well. I acknowledge my weakness as a man and do not overlook the use of common drugs, nor do I look down on others because their choice of drug is harder on the body than my choices. They're all choices gentlemen and to think you ride higher on the hog because you get your drugs from the gas station as opposed to the alley out back is simply asinine.

 

[daleeman]

Life is cheap to the following
Dope dealers
Dope makers
Liberals
All Politicians
Pharma companies
Pill mill doctors
Hillary (Satin's foot stool)

Open borders for more cheap lives to smuggle in dope, voters, welfare leaches, ISIS fighters.
Makes me mad, really mad.

 

[bowhunter1023]

Wouldn't putting in that next chew, or lighting up that next cigarette be a choice as well though? Being addicted may not be a choice, but feeding the habit that makes you addicted is.

Choices lead to addiction. I'm not arguing that. But a choice is a choice is a choice. You have a big fat dip today? That's a choice brother. Just because you view it as a relatively harmless one does not exclude the fact that it was a choice you made to put a drug in your body.

 

[at1010]

Studies say that nicotine is just as addictive as heroine and about 50% of addicts report that smoking was just as hard if not harder to quit than heroine. I don't agree with those that say addiction is a choice as that goes against everything an addiction, however not seeking treatment once addicted is a choice. A hard one no doubt, but a choice to try to quit is a choice none the less.

I agree but you can see that without a strong support system, family or other avenues how hard it would be to go to a meeting, rehab, etc.

That is very much why I don't support the "let me rot" mentality. If these people had a support system they could potentially get off of the drugs or go to a rehab facility. However it is a snowball effect because no one wants to help and addict. Sometimes these are the ones who need help the most!

Coming from someone who has been addicted to snuff, I have too read those studies. However, I think nicotine is so easily addictive because it's easy for ones mind to say "it ain't that bad, one more dip won't kill me". Imagine shooting up, you know it's so bad. If you get caught you will go to jail, your family has disowned you, and yet you still can't stop. I know a lot of people who could quit dipping if the odds were the same.

I have seen those reports though, and always found them interesting.