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Frost Seeding. Timing, Tips, & Tricks in TOO.

Stressless

Active Member
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Keene, OH
Never planted a seed for a food plot prior to 2016. Since then I've gotten a smidgen some wisdom - per the Dean Martin axiom:

Wisdom is garnered from Experience. Experience is garnered from bad decisions.
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Frost seeding involves spreading seed on frozen ground and allowing the freeze-thaw-freeze-thaw cycle that occurs as spring approaches to provide good seed-to-soil contact. When moisture in the top layer of soil freezes, ice expands upward, carrying soil with it, when it melts it carries the seed into the top most portion of soil.
So perhaps this might be a good collective repository of frost seeding Experience with shreds of your Wisdom sown about. Thinking discussion might be a good to expand on a couple examples.

As is standard, plan your work and work your plan, I'll put down what I've learned in the last couple years.

Prepping: (interested in your observations)
- Soil test early enough to get your lime of choice on the fall/winter prior to frost seeding.
- Generally I don't amend with fertilizer until mid April, spring greenup, as the frost seeded seedlings are just reaching for sunlight.
- De-thatch the plot just prior to frost seeding if need be. Leaves, dead weeds laying over etc will prevent (many/much/some) of the seeds from good seed to soil contact.
- On the plots I plan to put a turkey blind out, I use a backpack leaf blower to really getting the debris off the plot - it helps a bunch to get the debris lifted up with a harrow. It seems the turkeys use these 'clean' plots better than plots that don't get the the debris blown off.

Seeding rate: (interested in your observations)
- On a bare ground ( new plot) I'll put the amount called for with the mix and add 1/3 rate (1 1/3 rate total) of small hard seeds being used, Clovers, Birdsfoot Trefoil, Chicory. My mix rate is 15#/acre, so a new plot gets 20#/acre
- I frost seed into my perennial plots yearly with about 1/2 rate or 7.5#/acre, those have Clovers, Birdsfoot Trefoil, Chicory already established,.
- I think the hand spreader, an earthway or similar gets the job done, set the rate to be able to walk the plot lineally and then diagonally to get a good distribution.

Best Frost Seeding Date: (interested in your observations)
- I've frost seeded in early Jan, Feb and Mar and think the results are best in the late Feb/Early Mar period for the legume mix and in Ohio.
- Don't frost seed prior to a big rain forecast, on frozen ground, maybe before it's froze and thawed a couple time to seat the seed, it can be readily washed away.
- Don't frost seed onto a appreciable amount of snow, as it may last and a heavy rain will wash the see off a crust of snow/ice

Maintenance (MTX):
- I've been very happy with the results I get from a mid Apr application of IMOX on newly frost seeded plots and perennial plots I overseeded. It doesn't appear to terminate any of the legume seedlings.
- Since I overseed my legume plots in the fall with winter rye, the IMOX terminates the rye as well.

Frost seeded bare dirt with poor winter rye early March.
IMG_0022 (2).JPG


That Mid Aug that fall:
20200914_081627.jpg
 
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bowhunter1023

Owner/Operator
Staff member
48,879
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Appalachia
Very detailed approach and I appreciate you sharing this info with us. My method is pretty simple: Sow seed when winter is leaving and spring is arriving. That's the KISS'd method of what you shared and I do consider some of those factors, e.g. don't sow on snow and timing the appropriate freeze/thaw cycle. I feel pretty confident in saying March is the month without fail. If you want to frost seed, March is the month to get it done in my area.

Good stuff 👍
 

at1010

*Supporting Member*
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Good write up!

I’d suggest not “de-thatching”.

You may up seed rate a bit but let the biology cycle and break down those nutrients for release back into the soil. Especially since we are frost seeding legumes.

I am with @bowhunter1023 - I typically just touch up spots in March.
 

Stressless

Active Member
2,128
85
Keene, OH
Thanks Albert @at1010 - A pic is worth a 1,000 words - as I'm not schooled in this I'm asking a question, what I do when I say de-thatch is run it over with a harrow to loosen, not remove, the organic matter prior to frost seeding. Half the plot done in the pic below. Might be a more apropos term for that? It really seems to help get a better catch.

1672325895983.png


My thought was to this improves the seed to soil contact when frost seeding. A couple years it's been too wet or gooey to harrow but since I started leaving live plants in the soil year round that hasn't been as much of a problem - another TTP I picked up from your blog.
 

at1010

*Supporting Member*
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Thanks Albert @at1010 - A pic is worth a 1,000 words - as I'm not schooled in this I'm asking a question, what I do when I say de-thatch is run it over with a harrow to loosen, not remove, the organic matter prior to frost seeding. Half the plot done in the pic below. Might be a more apropos term for that? It really seems to help get a better catch.

View attachment 169581

My thought was to this improves the seed to soil contact when frost seeding. A couple years it's been too wet or gooey to harrow but since I started leaving live plants in the soil year round that hasn't been as much of a problem - another TTP I picked up from your blog.

this looks great. Just a thought for consideration.
The benefits of frost seeding is ease of establishment and no till. Therefor we can get a “jump” to on the weed pressure the next spring and smother them before growth. When we disturb soil in anyway - we are stirring weed seeds in the bank and you might be hurting yourself by giving more unwanted species the upper hand in the soil profile.

just a slightly different way to think about it but always consider every action creates impact elsewhere, in some regard.

keep after it!!
 

Fletch

Senior Member
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I've got about a 1/2 acre out in Illinois I want to do something with.. Currently overgrown crp that's waist high.. Going to see if I can get a guy in to brushhog it down to nothing... Then thinking maybe use a lawn thatcher to scratch surface, then blow off loose shit and throw down some mix with turnips in it... Maybe I'll be wasting my time and a couple dollars... But to get someone to spray it and put in a food plot costs $$$... At a 1000+ miles away it's hard to spray, then wait till everything dies and then seed...
 
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Stressless

Active Member
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Keene, OH
I totally get that @Fletch, 920 miles for me. Thats part of my optimization puzzle, the most or highest probability of a good fall crop for the least amount of yearly touches, I failed at annuals due to just that reason, too many touches that have to match wx conditions. No way to effectively do that this far away. I absolutely rely on frost seeding to keep the crop going, @at1010 is on point with bringing weed seeds up with any disturbance. So any help in frost seeding is why I wanted to start this thread. For some folks food plots are a wake up and 3 min walk. All information or COA's are not weighted the same for everyone.
 
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at1010

*Supporting Member*
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I've got about a 1/2 acre out in Illinois I want to do something with.. Currently overgrown crp that's waist high.. Going to see if I can get a guy in to brushhog it down to nothing... Then thinking maybe use a lawn thatcher to scratch surface, then blow off loose shit and throw down some mix with turnips in it... Maybe I'll be wasting my time and a couple dollars... But to get someone to spray it and put in a food plot costs $$$... At a 1000+ miles away it's hard to spray, then wait till everything dies and then seed...
You can spray and seed same day. Roundup will not impact seed (some argue it will if sprayed directly on it).

spray
Let it dry
Seed
Pray for rain

I’d do a fall mix and add annual clovers so you have both a good fall hunting plot and green up the next spring.
 

Fletch

Senior Member
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@Stressless and @at1010.. Yeh it's rough when your 18 hrs away... Like you said, if you lived there you could play with it on a daily basis... Al... I'm not too concerned about a spring summer plot as there are AG fields all around for the deer to feed on... Just once they are harvested the deer seem to stay at one end of the farm where there are more oaks... Actually on the side I'm on the CRP has gotten out of hand it's gotten so thick that's it's hard to walk in... This summer I'm gonna get a guy to brush hog some lanes... What it really needs is a MATCH....
 
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bowhunter1023

Owner/Operator
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Appalachia
Here's a gift for you frost seeders:

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If you've ever wondered what perfect timing looked like, consider the next 3 days to be it! I'll be carving time out of my busy schedule to get some clover down on my trails and one food plot. The rain on Thursday, followed by a freeze/thaw cycle, with more rain, is absolutely perfect for anyone looking to get some clover seed down. It's definitely a bit early, but I think spring is coming sooner than old Philbert predicted, so I'm willing to risk it since the conditions warrant it.
 

bowhunter1023

Owner/Operator
Staff member
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Appalachia
Per usual, Al is spot on. Clover seed is uniquely suited for frost seeding due in large part to it's size. It's also a hardy seed/seedling that will "overwinter" really well. The size allows it to achieve seed-to-soil contact really well, which allows it to be "sucked" into the ground with the freeze/thaw cycle, but being small and easy to cover helps it avoid predation as well.
 

Stressless

Active Member
2,128
85
Keene, OH
I'll add Birdfoot Trefoil and Chicory to those seeds suitable for frost seeding. Really like adding what diversity I can.

As @bowhunter1023 said, -perfect conditions. Can't make this window happen 😑 but thats why I'm in the blend I'm in. It's what works best for my ability to touch the plots as required.

Happy habitat management to those can get out. Neighbor Cliff is frost seeding switchgrass today.
 

at1010

*Supporting Member*
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Just keep in mind - use frost seeding as a method for enhancing a field. Don’t expect it to be the magical wand to create a clover pasture.

also be cognizant of the clovers you’re using - especially if you have other goals in mind for that field. Many perennial white clovers are cheap but also a sob to ever get rid of - if the goal is to rotate crops at some point.

just food for thought.