ODNR Deer Harvest comparison

[Lundy]

So where are we at today. last day before gun compared to the last day before gun last year. i do think its poetic that the harvest is way down, even with the muzzy weekend in oct.

I don't think the harvest is down in number very much at all, maybe a few thousand and the 2013 harvest is up quite a bit over the same time period as 2011.

Gun week will tell the story.

I think there are less deer for sure but the published numbers just don't show what many are saying about falling off a cliff, at least not yet, we'll know in one week.

 

[Milo]

I don't think the harvest is down in number very much at all, maybe a few thousand and the 2013 harvest is up quite a bit over the same time period as 2011.

Gun week will tell the story.

I think there are less deer for sure but the published numbers just don't show what many are saying about falling off a cliff, at least not yet, we'll know in one week.

I think we are on the tail end of Brock's 10 deer I'm a wood lot analogy. Where I saw 15 deer, i am only seeing 5. I can still fill my tag quota with 5, the habitat can easily sustain 10. We will be a few years off of the decline and it will take years to recover due to harvest habits formed when the herd was in excess as well as those we loose to participation interest. The anti participation smells a little bit of antigun to me which doesn't sit well with me.

 

[dante322]

The anti participation smells a little bit of antigun to me which doesn't sit well with me.

What makes you say that?

 

[Milo]

What makes you say that?

Driving people away from hunting (reducing their gun interactions and participation ) and increasing the apathy that already plagues us at times. Even if they hunt one week a year and that is taken away from them, why would they stand and fight for a week they used to live for every year and it's taken away by the people who are supposed to be supporting them.

 

[dante322]

so youre saying the dnr is anti gun? I dont think so, they love guns, guns make dead deer.

 

[Beentown]

Maybe it's time to get that booth at the D&T expo and hand out literature.

Yes, and I volunteer to help.

 

[Beentown]

Driving people away from hunting (reducing their gun interactions and participation ) and increasing the apathy that already plagues us at times. Even if they hunt one week a year and that is taken away from them, why would they stand and fight for a week they used to live for every year and it's taken away by the people who are supposed to be supporting them.

Great forward looking thought process Milo!

 

[Jamie]

Driving people away from hunting (reducing their gun interactions and participation ) and increasing the apathy that already plagues us at times. Even if they hunt one week a year and that is taken away from them, why would they stand and fight for a week they used to live for every year and it's taken away by the people who are supposed to be supporting them.

I don't understand what you are talking about. we have not lost any gun hunting time for deer. please elaborate on what you mean.

I have to agree with Lundy about the numbers. the harvest data for this season so far is a little misleading. if you look only at the statewide archery harvest compared to last year, buck harvest is down 2%, which is statistically insignificant to me, the antlerless harvest is down just under 10%, which is significant, but not an unreasonable fluctuation. I just don't think we aren't going to have a good comparison to last season until after muzzleloader season.

 

[dante322]

I don't understand what you are talking about. we have not lost any gun hunting time for deer. please elaborate on what you mean.

By my math, there are actually more gun hunting hours. The bonus weekend was replaced by the weekend in oct. no loss there. and the days of gun hunting are actually a half hour longer. 2 days in oct. 7 days in december, and three more in january. Thats 6 more hours of hunting during prime time.

 

[Milo]

Guys it's not about hunting hours or days. It's about participation and people. Believe it or not these "part timers" who pick up a shotgun one week a year are vital to protection of our rights and privileges . If they don't partake in our hertiage we stand to loose the votes and legacy votes to protect it . Wether the threat comes from HSUS or Brady foundation. One day we are going to run out of money and votes .

 

[Jamie]

I get that, and I agree. I fail to see the connection between deer numbers and the DOW putting forth any anti-gun sentiment or discouraging anyone from using firearms(for any legitimate purpose). are you suggesting that somehow less deer will discourage hunting with firearms by the part timers? Milo, what da hell are you talking about?

 

[Lundy]

I see much more anti gun sentiment from bowhunters than I do from the ODNR. I don't think the ODNR is anti gun, they better not be it is still how their bread is buttered financially.

The largest increase, very significant, in harvest has been in the archery seasons over the last 5-6 years. The first call to arms from the bowhunters on this site and others was to eliminate the 2 day gun season. Maybe that elimination was justified but maybe there needed to be a season reduction of the bowhunting seasons also. I don't think either was or is needed

Gun hunters had only 9 total days with a shotgun and 4 with a MZ to kill a buck, 13 total days. That was reduced to 11 total days for the entire season.

I have always said the harvest can be better controlled through harvest restriction than through reducing hunter opportunity.

 

[Milo]

I get that, and I agree. I fail to see the connection between deer numbers and the DOW putting forth any anti-gun sentiment or discouraging anyone from using firearms(for any legitimate purpose). are you suggesting that somehow less deer will discourage hunting with firearms by the part timers? Milo, what da hell are you talking about?

Hunting in general not just hunting with firearms. A lot of people just hunt for this week. That's all they do. If the herd is so week that it becomes less entertaining to them that reduces out ranks and takes more and more people out of the sport. Most won't return for some time if at all. Strong deer numbers result is strong hunter numbers. It's pretty simple really don't has already said they will pull back the reigns when hunter numbers drop. I highly doubt they do that. That's an addictive and expensive poison called FB flu

 

[Jamie]

if low deer numbers is problem enough to eliminate enough hunters that it makes any real difference in terms of defending our hunting heritage, then hunting is doomed to end. I don't, however, share your pessimism. I contend that any "hunter" that would quit hunting because there isn't a deer behind every tree, making it easy for them to score, is probably not helping further the cause of hunting in any meaningful way anyway. the "johnny-come-lately" types in hunting are not our saving grace.

 

[bluedog]

Not sure I can get the thought that is running around inside my head written down, but I'll try. How and when did deer hunting become the only kind of hunting that matters? Every single one of my hunting mentors did not start out by deer hunting. There just weren't that many deer back then. They started on squirrel or rabbit. They started by trapping coons or muskrat. They started by shooting groundhogs out of the farm fields. I don't think a one of them went deer hunting until they were 10 or 12 years old. They love deer hunting, but it is not the only kind of hunting they do. In most cases, it is just a small proportion of their total hunting days. Many waterfowl hunt. Most turkey hunt. Some have bird dogs and travel to Pennsylvania or other states in the midwest. Today I see all these videos of folks putting deer guns in the hands of 6 year old kids. Why? I don't get it. I don't think it is wise to pin our hunting heritage on just one species of animal. Hunting is about much much more than the almighty white-tailed deer. To save hunting, we should be teaching kids and new adult hunters this. I love deer hunting and I never want to quit hunting deer. But if all the deer in the world up and vanished, I would still be hunting. That is what we need to teach new hunters, both adults and kids.

 

[Jackalope]

Hunting in general not just hunting with firearms. A lot of people just hunt for this week. That's all they do. If the herd is so week that it becomes less entertaining to them that reduces out ranks and takes more and more people out of the sport. Most won't return for some time if at all. Strong deer numbers result is strong hunter numbers. It's pretty simple really don't has already said they will pull back the reigns when hunter numbers drop. I highly doubt they do that. That's an addictive and expensive poison called FB flu

This came from Tonkovich after I asked him how much lower they want to take the deer population. Another 50% 40% 30% he stopped me right there and said. "About that" so 30%? "Yeah but I don't think we can make it happen. I think were as low as we can take it. We rely on you guys to reduce the numbers but as we reduce them, more and more people just don't bother anymore. We will reach a point where those guys will quit hunting. Then the population will naturally rise again. And we will start to try to lower it again. It's all a cycle. But we are not going to reach the goal because people will just flat-out quit hunting.

 

[Jackalope]

Not sure I can get the thought that is running around inside my head written down, but I'll try. How and when did deer hunting become the only kind of hunting that matters? Every single one of my hunting mentors did not start out by deer hunting. There just weren't that many deer back then. They started on squirrel or rabbit. They started by trapping coons or muskrat. They started by shooting groundhogs out of the farm fields. I don't think a one of them went deer hunting until they were 10 or 12 years old. They love deer hunting, but it is not the only kind of hunting they do. In most cases, it is just a small proportion of their total hunting days. Many waterfowl hunt. Most turkey hunt. Some have bird dogs and travel to Pennsylvania or other states in the midwest. Today I see all these videos of folks putting deer guns in the hands of 6 year old kids. Why? I don't get it. I don't think it is wise to pin our hunting heritage on just one species of animal. Hunting is about much much more than the almighty white-tailed deer. To save hunting, we should be teaching kids and new adult hunters this. I love deer hunting and I never want to quit hunting deer. But if all the deer in the world up and vanished, I would still be hunting. That is what we need to teach new hunters, both adults and kids.

I agree with you 1000%. But the reality is king deer reign supreme when it comes to money. For the DNR, private merchandise companies, TV, and right down to your mom-and-pop that gets 40% of their business during gun week from hunters like granny's pizza on SR 50 in Vinton county. Those businesses like shops, taxidermists, butschers, and even cabins will have a hard time staying in business catering to squirrel and rabbit hunting. I agree with all of your points but deer hunting is the tail that wags the dog. But heritage and the love of hunting should begin with small game.

 

[Jamie]

How and when did deer hunting become the only kind of hunting that matters?

well, turkeys and deer, but that happened when the ODNR figured out how much money they could make selling deer and turkey tags.

great post, bluedog. you are right on the money.

 

[Beentown]

if low deer numbers is problem enough to eliminate enough hunters that it makes any real difference in terms of defending our hunting heritage, then hunting is doomed to end. I don't, however, share your pessimism. I contend that any "hunter" that would quit hunting because there isn't a deer behind every tree, making it easy for them to score, is probably not helping further the cause of hunting in any meaningful way anyway. the "johnny-come-lately" types in hunting are not our saving grace.

'Johnny come lately' spends money and votes. He has more pull than most realize. Also, 'Johnny come lately' usually ends up being a more educated and dedicated hunter. Then he helps others become 'Joeschmo come lately' and it helps us even more in the long run. If Johnny come lately can't kill something in his neighborhood which used to support decent numbers he is going to quit hunting sooner than later.

 

[Mike]

great post, bluedog. you are right on the money.

Yep