Welcome to TheOhioOutdoors
Wanting to join the rest of our members? Login or sign up today!
Login / Join

My thoughts on the deer herd.

ohiohunter1980

Junior Member
1
0
Hello everyone, I am a long time lurker and wanted to express my opinion about the ohio deer problem. I am less effected by the low deer numbers than others. Mainly
because I have a large tract of private land where I can kinda control things a bit more, but even with this I am seeing less deer than 10 years ago. Way less than 20
years ago. It has just aggravated me for so long. The stupidity of some of the hunters. They complain all week long of gun season that they have only seen 2,3,4, or
just low number of deer, and havent got a shot at any of them. I tell them we need to stop shooting some does and let the herd rebound. They usually kind of agree with
me. Although the next time out when they are hunting they still shoot a doe where they have only seen a few the whole week, and then to top it off. They come back to
the same location and shoot another if they see one. So many people who complain about not seeing any deer are doing this. It is tough to save the deer herd when the people
are to dumb to police themselves. Thats where we need the dnr to step and and limit doe tags, and put some restrictions in. I would love to see 1 doe only statewide.
That means no jumping to different counties, or zones and shooting multiple, and also giving up your buck tag for another doe. It should be 1 buck, and 1 doe. Not
2 does, and no buck. Just a fixed 1 doe, 1 buck. I would personally prefer an antler restriction too. I know a lot of people wont agree with this and they will call
me a trophy hunter, and to an extent I guess maybe, but not really. I just prefer to shoot mature deer. I will shoot a 120" quick as can be if I know it is a 4.5 year
old plus. I tend to do the same with does. I look for does that dont have fawns with them. I have harvested many does without fawns and upon the field dressing no fawns
were inside. Does like that are not doing us any good. As for the antler restriction an 8 point minimum would be nice, but I have seen some big 6 points I would shoot
also. So my thoughts would be 8 points, or 100" inch score for any antler points minimum. That would just about eliminate 1.5 old bucks from being killed, and save
some 2.5 year olds. Doing this for a few years I think Ohio hunters would be so much happier in the woods. Not only would the age class go up, but so would our deer
numbers. We would have bigger, older bucks. Higher deer density. Overall a more enjoyable time in the woods. The dnr is not taking into account the predation, and the
disease kills. When that happens they need to police that as well. When there is a breakout of ehd in a county, or area. They need to step in and limit tags. I know
it might upset some people, but I would be all for it if it happened where I hunt. Anyways I know there is way more to it than that. If there were some way we could
have a system where the hunter could register and vote for this stuff. Anyways rant over
 

huntn2

Senior Member
6,090
157
Hudson, OH
Welcome. Many here agree with your thoughts as we share the same frustrations.

Sadly, even taking to a WO this year, he doesn’t expect a change in opportunity for next year even in the EHD areas. He a cop and I were talking and he stated it will really take folks doing just what we have all been saying and that is self regulating.

Struggle there is as you highlighted from your experiences, in general, people cannot self regulate in any facet of life it seems...
 

at1010

*Supporting Member*
4,943
139
welcome to the forum.

I am not truly old enough to recall hunting from 20 years ago but I do remember 10-15 years ago. I grew up hunting public land, mostly salt fork. I remember in the years of 2005-2010 being able to see and harvest deer there EASILY. I believe that was back when SE Ohio was zone C and you could take up to 6 does a YEAR! I cannot talk to public land numbers anymore but below I can discuss what we have noticed on our own ground.

I am now blessed to own a chunk of ground with my family. We do the 365 a year deer management from feeders, orchards, acres of beans,turnips,etc. Even on that farm over the last 8 years we have seen the hunting get significantly better but we still have days, weekends, hunts that we get skunked. This year the deer numbers have seemed to increase significantly.

An example of the increase is this year I have had several pictures of 6,7,8+ does in one picture in 1/8th of an acre food plot. I have also checked camera and time stamps on a camera on other side of farm to find 3,4,5 does in that field as well at the same time. I believe in my area the numbers are moving in the correct direction.

With all that being said, I think because the deer numbers seem to be lower the past few years then in the past, most hunters have gotten much more competitive. What I mean by this, all hunters want "their deer" to "stay home". My neighbor (I am friends with him) put out 1200lbs of corn (over a few feeding locations) right before MUZZY season. He then tells me he is seeing 10-12 does at a time on his feeders/plots.

Based on his observations combined with mine, I would say we probably have a 20-30 DPSM, could be higher. However the deer are very consolidated due to the increased human intrusion of feeders, plots, etc. I am not anti -baiting (nor do I want to go down that rabbit hole) but I am just not sure if 20 years ago this was as intensely done as it is now.

*note - we have harvest 2 does, 4 bucks total in 4 years on 400 acres between myself and 2 neighbors. Could be higher/lower harvests as you add in more land around us.
 

at1010

*Supporting Member*
4,943
139
Welcome. Many here agree with your thoughts as we share the same frustrations.

Sadly, even taking to a WO this year, he doesn’t expect a change in opportunity for next year even in the EHD areas. He a cop and I were talking and he stated it will really take folks doing just what we have all been saying and that is self regulating.

Struggle there is as you highlighted from your experiences, in general, people cannot self regulate in any facet of life it seems...

yea I agree - I wrote to the head of DNR one year. His response is " very hard to micro manage the deer numbers, some areas are too high, some are too low - the best way to manage is to talk to neighbors and limit doe harvest if you want more deer"
 

at1010

*Supporting Member*
4,943
139
If that truly worked there would be no reason for laws and regulations. People can NOT police themselves in any way, individuals yes but not society as a whole.

Spencie - I agree, this is just the response I got the the head of the DNR.

The issue we have around my farm is one large family farm allows all their family/friends come hunt during gun season. They shot 15 does one gun season off a couple hundred acres. They are never going to limit their harvest, the hunt one week, drive deer and want to fill tags. The only thing we can do is stay friendly, hunt low pressure and hope deer hole up on my farm.
 

finelyshedded

You know what!!!
Supporting Member
31,855
260
SW Ohio
Totally agree that alot of hunters cannot self regulate and will never change and are part of the problem. Not much we can do about that.
 

Spencie

Senior Member
5,051
145
Constitution Ohio
Spencie - I agree, this is just the response I got the the head of the DNR.

The issue we have around my farm is one large family farm allows all their family/friends come hunt during gun season. They shot 15 does one gun season off a couple hundred acres. They are never going to limit their harvest, the hunt one week, drive deer and want to fill tags. The only thing we can do is stay friendly, hunt low pressure and hope deer hole up on my farm.

I was just stating that the DNR officer was just blowing smoke with his generic response.
 
Totally agree that alot of hunters cannot self regulate and will never change and are part of the problem. Not much we can do about that.

I have a hard time blaming hunters as most hunters do not know what the deer population is in their area. In AT's example if the family comes up and always sees and kills about 15 deer then they would feel that the population is fine.
 

giles

Cull buck specialist
Supporting Member
I have a hard time blaming hunters as most hunters do not know what the deer population is in their area. In AT's example if the family comes up and always sees and kills about 15 deer then they would feel that the population is fine.

Agreed, like blaming a child for being an asshole. Ain’t the child’s fault, it’s the parents.
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
38,841
260
One thing that i have learned in the 9 years of hammering this subject is this.

The vast majority of hunters are too ignorant to understand the problem even when they see the impact with their own eyes in their own area.

Of the hunters who do understand the problem a large percentage of them let greed or pride get in the way when it comes down to self restraint.

The DNR relied on this to accomplish their reduction agenda. They know that self regulation on a scale that will make a difference is BS. So this is what they told the small percentage of hunters who understood what was going on. All the while they told the remainder that they have way too many deer and that killing a bunch of them was a good thing.
 

Spencie

Senior Member
5,051
145
Constitution Ohio
Less deer does not make for a better rut. It makes it very boring. If you have 100 acres with only a handful of does the bucks do not run back and forth inside of your property lines looking for a hot doe that is not there.
Less deer does clean up genetics. Around my house EHD has hit hard about every 5 years. The genetics are outstanding.
 

giles

Cull buck specialist
Supporting Member
I understand that Mike, just some of the things ODNR has said in the past. Things that really pissed me off. Our population never hit the unhealthy point.

While I’m fired up about this, let’s talk about habitat improvement...wtf are they going to do? Build a town and make it no hunting?! Deer are thriving in cities right now, all the talk of habitat is bullshit to me. Sure timber sales would help a ton. With current regulations, the population still wouldn’t grow though.

Deer populations grow in places they are protected, period.
 

finelyshedded

You know what!!!
Supporting Member
31,855
260
SW Ohio
I also believe that the ODNR and those who tell them the way it’s going to be know good and well that baiting is extremely effective and have been allowing it to be legal so the hunters can kill more deer. To publish that baiting is not shone to be effective or aiding the hunter is a blatant lie! I’ll say that right to their face!(said in my best Donnie Baker voice...lmao)

Seriously though, if it’s not effective then why are so many doing it?!? Also, why is baiting turkey’s illegal then?!?! lmao

If this alone doesn’t uncover whose behind the curtain pulling the strings and what their agenda is I don’t know what will. I’m done beating this dead horse as it will never be allowed to get back to the way it used to be. All we can do is self regulate and control what we do individually cause the ODNR will not be allowed to do anything that lets the numbers rebound. Add the fact that the Amish population has exploded as well as their hunting ranges it is bound to get worse before it gets better.

Nuff said as nothing will change, yawn.....sigh:smiley_blackeye:
 

giles

Cull buck specialist
Supporting Member
Same idea behind how American population continues to suck more and more. The Good responsible people are only having 1 or 2 kids while the ghetto/trailer park/immigrants are having as many as they can. It doesn’t take a real smart person to see the problem here...just takes someone willing to see it.
 

Fletch

Senior Member
Supporting Member
6,078
118
Hey Ric..... Care to give us your opinion on baiting??? LOL Along with you I hate it... But just like here in Jersey its here to stay. Way TOO much money being made off the sale of corn. Just look in Walmart at the skids of it in the sporting goods dept. Farmers would be in an up-roar. Besides most hunters couldn't kill a deer without corn. And the DNR would not be getting the numbers they want. Here in Jersey this bullshit of lengthy seasons with unlimited does started way back in the late 1980's to reduce the deer population. Well they reduced it, but did they go back to normal bag limits and season lengths?? Hell no!!!! Making too much money of the sale of extra permits.. So like some have said its time for sportman to take matters into their own hands and think before pulling that trigger. But as the saying goes: YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID.. THEY ARE THEIR OWN WORST ENEMY..
 

finelyshedded

You know what!!!
Supporting Member
31,855
260
SW Ohio
For the record, I’m not bashing anyone who baits because it’s legal. I just wish the ODNR wouldn’t lie and admit that it is a big advantage and they allow it because it is what it is, a tool to help hunters kill deer. They are using everything they can to help hunters achieve the goal the FB and Insurance companies have laid out for them. How many hunters would be hunting in these temps during late season without baiting of some type of pile? Very few, IMO. Again, not in line with the what goals the powers to be want to accomplish. There wasn’t anybody baiting that I know of back in the 70’s,80’s and most of the 90’s because you didn’t have to. Deer numbers were high enough and there was no competition amongst hunters thus no one was trying to out draw one another. Now the numbers are so low in many areas you almost have to bait just to stay in the game by drawing what deer you have left just to see deer. Down here in the SW I just can’t get myself to pull the trigger on a doe cuz the population is so low but I guarantee some in my area will not restrain themselves. The only way you can get hunters to stop that is to regulate them and that’s not going to happen just like Joe and others have been saying all along.
 

Gordo

Senior Member
5,515
121
Athens County
When I think about the deer herd and read everyone's opinions, I still haven't figured out the ideal that we are all aiming for as a 'whole'.

For myself, I'd say it's sustainability.

***Gimme a second. Gotta go grab a granola bar from the pantry****

Alright, im back...

Shit. That's all I got

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]