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Lock Down?

Lundy

Member
1,307
127
Alright you guys have to explain (convince:)) to me the lock down that I read so much about.

We live in a state where the buck to doe ratio is not one to one.

The doe when ready will stand for a buck for 24-48 hrs max. He then goes on his way in search of his next partner.

If we have many more does than breeding bucks what are all of these other does in estrus doing while the bucks are locked down with one doe? Breeding with little bucks? While that certainly happens that is not the design of mother nature.

All of the does are not ready at exactly the same time but to hear many talk about lockdown it would make you believe that every buck in the woods suddenly is locked down with one doe and there is no movement taking place for over a week anywhere.

I tend to believe that what we are seeing has more to do with the amount of moving required by a buck to find his next target. Early in the rut when we see bucks cruising everywhere all times of the day and see a bunch of new bucks on our cameras is when they know it is starting and they are going far and wide trying to find that first receptive doe. Much like a young man cruising all of the bars looking for someone to accept his advances. Once a bunch of does are in estrus a buck may only need to literally walk a few steps to find the next receptive doe, he doesn't need to search the countryside. Once you are in the girls dorm at the college you may not need to leave the building but you are still changing rooms at the dorm.

I am just wondering is the term lock down (not seeing the bucks)has more to do with not hunting in the right location for the main breeding activity that is taking place.

The numbers just don't add up to me. The majority of does get bred the first cycle and that can't happen with a buck locking up on one doe for any extended period of time.

Just curious what you all think.
 

dante322

*Supporting Member*
5,506
157
Crawford county
I always thought that lock down refered to when a buck paired up with a doe that was entering estrous and refused to leaver her. She isnt ready to breed just yet, but he stays with her and fends off any other suitors.
As far as the does that dont get bred, they will go back into cycle about 28 days after the first rut. they will continue to go into cycle until all the does have been bred.
 

Kaiser878

Senior Member
2,633
97
ohio
Here is the way I see it and have experienced it....On most properties....atleast my properties there is maybe 1 good, mature deer...Although not this the case for me this year..but anyway,... He locks down with a doe....That doe is still giving off scent....Any cruising buck in the area is going to find her also....SO the major density of your bucks are going to be near her... Although, the bucks usually tend to take them somewhere out of the way, where perhaps other bucks wont find them... doesnt always work that way though....

As far as a time span....From tending to breeding a buck will stay with a doe for around three days...That is unless of course he is defeated by another buck.. Thats why it its possible for a doe to have 2 or 3 fawns at one time with 2 or even 3 fathers.... Depending on when she is caught and if there is a more dominant buck that receives her through her estrous cycle....

I have witnessed a single doe and a single buck from the tending phase to the breeding phase over a 3-4 day period... How so you may ask?? I hunted a field edge along a thick draw in a field for 4 days....Just hoping she would bring him my way...for 3 days she did not...They literally were the same place for 3 straight days...On the fourth day she was running wild from him as if she was "complete"....Needless to say I never killed that deer....

The rut is a double edged sword as I have heard others use in comparison. Either your in the right place or your not...Because any and almost every buck in the area is going to be where the "sweetest" smelling doe is.... Its not only nature, its common sense....

I killed one of my biggest deer to date while he was tending/breeding a doe.... Not sure what stage they were in, as I killed him the first day I saw them together when she came walking very slowly passed me with him in tow as if he had a nose ring and she was holding the rope...If I had to guess Id say they were locked down together and she was just grabbing a bite to eat out of the food plot....He was just along for the ride...There was no running or chasing or grunting...Just a very slow game of follow the leader, he was literally inches behind her....

People can say what they want....Have their own theories...But I have a hard time not believing what I see.... And what I have seen is posted above... But when the smell of "ripe" love is in the air, its a safe bet you are gonig to see the majority of the bucks in your area near or around that doe.... But also remember....A "big" buck can only be with one doe at a time...and that is why they say that the majority of does are bred by younger less dominant deer.... Because there are far more of them than there are mature deer... And when daddy is away....someones gotta provide the lovin
 

brock ratcliff

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
24,834
247
I don't have a good explanation for it. You've been in the game a long time, Lundy, you know how it works. One day, you have deer all over the place, does as well as bucks. A day or so later, you can hardly find a deer. After an uneventful morning in the woods, you drive home and see deer out in an open field, she's laying down he's standing there looking dumb. Makes sense the deer didn't disappear, makes no sense where they went. Then one day, (hopefully tomorrow) a switch goes off again and the deer show up again.
 

loose_is_fast

Junior Member
618
108
McClure
i read somewhere that over 70 percent of does are bred by button bucks. In a way this sounds right to me when i was younger i would do anything that stood still long enough and if they didn't on to the next and once done on to the next. well it may be the same to deer as they get older they might stick around untill she is ready instead of doing the teen age hit it and quit it.Just a thought.
 

Diablo54

Senior Member
7,082
126
Outside
i read somewhere that over 70 percent of does are bred by button bucks. In a way this sounds right to me when i was younger i would do anything that stood still long enough and if they didn't on to the next and once done on to the next. well it may be the same to deer as they get older they might stick around untill she is ready instead of doing the teen age hit it and quit it.Just a thought.

Does breed dominant bucks. Not button bucks
 

loose_is_fast

Junior Member
618
108
McClure
Does breed dominant bucks. Not button bucks

that is very hard to believe, when they spend 72 hours to breed.Now for example lets say i have 20 does on my property and 3 mature "dominant" bucks. that is seven does to breed per buck and 72 hours per doe that is three weeks of breeding.Deer are not elk just some food for thought.
 

brock ratcliff

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
24,834
247
I see breeding activity clear through January. I believe most of the breeding gets done by whatever buck is close by when it's time. Sorta like closing time at a beer joint.
 

Diablo54

Senior Member
7,082
126
Outside
that is very hard to believe, when they spend 72 hours to breed.Now for example lets say i have 20 does on my property and 3 mature "dominant" bucks. that is seven does to breed per buck and 72 hours per doe that is three weeks of breeding.Deer are not elk just some food for thought.

No. Your statement is hard to believe: a switch doesn't flip and every Doe doesn't turn hot and get bred at the same time. It's a 2 month breeding season even if we only focus on November. When is the last time you walked into a bar and had every girl in there drag you outside? It just doesn't happen. Also just because you "have" 3 dominant bucks doesn't mean that more haven't moved in for the rut.
 

hickslawns

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
39,720
248
Ohio
Good point Lundy. Great thoughts Kaiser. Not so sure about the button bucks. I have heard year and a half bucks do large part of breeding but never heard 6 month old deer doing any breeding. I suppose it is possible. Just doesn't seem likely.

I think Lundy's point explains why more big boys are killed in late November. This is after the first major round of breeding and they are back out cruising.
 

Diablo54

Senior Member
7,082
126
Outside
not tryin to ruffle any feathers diablo if i came off as a smart ass i wasn't trying to. I was just throwing numbers out there.

Itl take a lot more than that to ruffle mine. I just really didn't believe the number. I've never even seen a button show any interest in a doe Durring the rut. But I'm sure it happens. I had just read on qdma that only 50 % of bb's are even capable of producing sperm. Maybe I'm wrong who knows lol.
 

Kaiser878

Senior Member
2,633
97
ohio
Itl take a lot more than that to ruffle mine. I just really didn't believe the number. I've never even seen a button show any interest in a doe Durring the rut. But I'm sure it happens. I had just read on qdma that only 50 % of bb's are even capable of producing sperm. Maybe I'm wrong who knows lol.

I actually saw my first button buck grunt and bump does last night...Couldnt hardly believe what I was seeing
 

cotty16

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
Itl take a lot more than that to ruffle mine. I just really didn't believe the number. I've never even seen a button show any interest in a doe Durring the rut. But I'm sure it happens. I had just read on qdma that only 50 % of bb's are even capable of producing sperm. Maybe I'm wrong who knows lol.

Maybe them BB's are just humping around? A little dry humpin is healthy for a relationship.
 

finelyshedded

You know what!!!
Supporting Member
31,855
260
SW Ohio
In some of my experiences I've seen does rear up and swing at bb's with their front hooves when one tries to mount them or at least act in a negative manner when approached by them.

I also believe just because a doe is in heat and primed for breeding in a span of 2-3 days the courtship of some pairs last longer than that. After a mature buck breeds a doe and she is still getting a lot of attention from the bucks hanging around for sloppy seconds,thirds or forths, does he let them have at it or does he stick around awhile till she rejects him and the others? Don't know but often wonder if they get as possessive as us humans sometimes. I've seen some slungers running with harems before which I suspect stays with that group till he breeds all of them or gets his ass kicked or killed. I've read or heard many times that the does naturally seek out the dominant buck or suitor for breeding purposes and I pretty much agree with it. It's basically survival of the fittest and by natural selection I figure.

Is lockdown often over used or misdiagnosed, sure otherwise there would be a certain window where NOBODY would be seeing or killing a slob buck. IMO, lockdown happens at different times in different areas all over this state that you can't accurately say, "You don't want to hunt Nov. 16-20 because its lockdown time!" That's ludicrous! As far as a lot of big ole monster bucks getting killed in late November, GunSeason baby! IMO, if not for deer gun season, a lot of monsters in this state or any state for that matter would prolly die of old age, Lockdown or NO.

I've never killed a big buck with a shotgun in all the years I'm still carrying a buck tag but I sure as hell try! It seems that I'm just never in the right place at the right time or I just plain don't see one but deer hunting with a shotgun and hanging out with my friends is something I look forward TOO whether I'm carrying a buck tag or not!
 
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xbowguy

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
29,629
234
Licking Co. Ohio
I seen a dandy yesterday "holding off" what appeared to be a button buck from his doe. Not sure if he was capable to breed, but he looked interested in finding out and the buck was taking no chances.
 

rutcrazed

Junior Member
45
39
Butler Co.
Sunday morning I seen a wierd but very cool thing. I had a very small buck 3pt chasing a young doe across a field into a tree line, they stayed in that tree line for about an hour and a half. They would come out on the edge a little and go back in and out and in. I could hear him grunting off and on and chasing. At this point there is another doe with them and I hear a deer blowing as though they are spooked. After a while the 3pt chases them over to me and then directly under me and this is where it got very cool the doe didnt act like they wanted to leave him he was walking behind them and grunting and then did a snort wheeze directly under my tree talk about awesome! He did that 3x and the doe would never get more than 5 yards away from him. He then chased one doe across the field away from me and the trailing doe started to blow at them! On my cam just a few days ago I have 3 mature bucks and all this went on with them somewhere. Crazy stuff!
 

bowhunter1023

Owner/Operator
Staff member
48,879
274
Appalachia
I don't buy the 70% number for a second. I have never seen a BB take interest in the rut and I would have if the number was truly that high. Make that 1.5 year old bucks and I find it more believable...

When I refer to "lock down" it is a relative statement to my general area. I've seen years where we have 2-3 crazy days in a row, then the next 2-3 are void of any kind of deer movement. I contribute this to does being in estrous somewhere other than where I am hunting. When it comes to mature bucks holing up for 2-3 days with a single doe, I do believe that happens. IMO, mature bucks take a much more methodical approach to breeding than younger bucks, same as we are much different breeders at 35 than we were at 15. When he finds the right doe, he wants to breed her and he'll wait to do so if need be, whereas a younger deer will leave her after a few failed attempts so he can go find another one willing to breed. My opinion is that the does can cause a lock down by refusing to move, or move far due to constantly being harassed. My neighborhood deer herd is a perfect example of this. We are overrun with does and see 7-10 a day most days. This past week, I have seen 3 deer total and I contribute that to does who are breeding being locked down in thick cover, and the ones who are not ready are tired of being harassed, so they hole up somewhere safe.

There is a lot that goes in to "lock down" and it is not just as simple as a 72 hour period where a buck is with a doe waiting to, or breeding her...