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Las Vegas Shooting

rsmith

Member
1,835
52
Its a huge deal. Start giving ground and whats next. They don't stop. Did the gays stop once they received the right to get married? No. They then started targeting people like bakeries, florists etc. Did the left stop with confederate statues, no, now they're going after statues of Lincoln, Jefferson, and columbus. You can't feed the alligator a snack and expect it to be full. It simply deepens their hunger.

I totally understand where you are coming from and what you are saying. I’m just saying what I think is okay in my mind. But my dad always told me opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one and quite frankly my opinion on what I think is okay is very narrow. The only thing they’re going to get from me is some dumb bump stop and that’s about it.
 

Dannmann801

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
10,640
191
Springboro
I need to read up on it again, but my understanding is that fully automatic weapons are not "banned" - you just gotta jump thru all the licensing hoops and most of the general public isn't going to go thru those hoops. The strict regulations were enacted to keep tommy-guns out of the hands of mobsters, etc etc etc. And I've got no problem with that, the current law as it's written. My understanding is that there are already a lot of gun ranges and folks who already own full-auto rigs legally.

Bump stocks are clearly designed as a legal work-around to that law. While bump stocks adhere to the letter of the law, they do not adhere to the "spirit of the law". That's one of the things that pisses me off so often, people and corporations and lawyers finding work-arounds to defeat the spirit of the law. (Big problem in our culture; as I've so often said, we have a "legal system", not a justice system.)

If the lawmakers decide to outlaw the production and sale of these devices, I think I'd be ok with that.
If someone wants or needs a fully automatic weapon, let them go thru the licensing process.

And as a disclaimer, like I said, I gotta read up -
 
I would be mad if they said lets ban anything over a 50 round mag, but quite frankly the bump stocks are useless in my opinion. I don’t feel we are losing any “gun rights” by losing bump stocks. And they aren’t going to come knocking on your door for them either they just will put them out of production so it isn’t that big of a deal.

Its a huge deal. Start giving ground and whats next. They don't stop. Did the gays stop once they received the right to get married? No. They then started targeting people like bakeries, florists etc. Did the left stop with confederate statues, no, now they're going after statues of Lincoln, Jefferson, and columbus. You can't feed the alligator a snack and expect it to be full. It simply deepens their hunger.

Personally, I feel any modification or add-on to a firearm that allows it to continuously fire without physically pulling the trigger yourself should fall in the "machine gun" category for the National Firearms Act.

"This includes any firearm which can fire more than 1 cartridge per trigger pull. Both continuous fully automatic fire and "burst fire" (e.g., firearms with a 3-round burst feature) are considered machine gun features. The weapon's receiver is by itself considered to be a regulated firearm. A non-machinegun that may be converted to fire more than one shot per trigger pull by ordinary mechanical skills is determined to be "readily convertible", and classed as a machine gun, such as a KG-9 pistol (pre-ban ones are "grandfathered")."

That may not be the best example/part of the act to share but it gets my point across. While I would LOVE to shoot a fully automatic gun some day I have realized with the laws were the way they are before I was born and can accept never owning a gun like that. I just don't see why things like the bump stock are even out there to "test" the waters and push the limits of the law. This one has seemingly come back to bite all of us law abiding citizens and defending it will seemingly make things worse in the long run.

Maybe I'm wrong??
 

MK111

"Happy Hunting Grounds in the Sky"
Supporting Member
6,551
66
SW Ohio
New production of full auto firearms have been banned since the 1990's for sell to the general public. However all full auto firearms produced before the ban went into effect are sellable to the general public if not banned by state law.
A lot of Class 3 full auto dealers have a manufacturing licence and they can make new full auto rifles and pistols that can only be sold to another class 3 full auto dealer. I believed they are called either a sales or dealer sample. All they have to do is put their name, serial number on the firearm and notify the ATF that it was made and no real waiting period. I believe that licence cost $500 per year. It that permits you to make a full auto AR16 in couple hours at no real extra cost instead of the $25K plus cost of a transferrable AR16.
 

MK111

"Happy Hunting Grounds in the Sky"
Supporting Member
6,551
66
SW Ohio
I feel everyone's idea of the bump stock is rather incorrect. In fact you are pulling the trigger everytime the rifle fires. The bumping effect of the stock going back and forth just pulls the trigger in a speedy way. The sear reset after each shot and the recoil of the bump fires the next shot.
The bump stock works on the principle of the shooter pushed the rifle away from you rather the normal pulling the rifle back into you shoulder. But the recoil somewhat overrides the pushing forward and that motion is what sets and resets the trigger for fast action.
 

rsmith

Member
1,835
52
Personally, I feel any modification or add-on to a firearm that allows it to continuously fire without physically pulling the trigger yourself should fall in the "machine gun" category for the National Firearms Act.

"This includes any firearm which can fire more than 1 cartridge per trigger pull. Both continuous fully automatic fire and "burst fire" (e.g., firearms with a 3-round burst feature) are considered machine gun features. The weapon's receiver is by itself considered to be a regulated firearm. A non-machinegun that may be converted to fire more than one shot per trigger pull by ordinary mechanical skills is determined to be "readily convertible", and classed as a machine gun, such as a KG-9 pistol (pre-ban ones are "grandfathered")."

That may not be the best example/part of the act to share but it gets my point across. While I would LOVE to shoot a fully automatic gun some day I have realized with the laws were the way they are before I was born and can accept never owning a gun like that. I just don't see why things like the bump stock are even out there to "test" the waters and push the limits of the law. This one has seemingly come back to bite all of us law abiding citizens and defending it will seemingly make things worse in the long run.

Maybe I'm wrong??

I 100% agree with you on this, very well put [emoji106]
 
I feel everyone's idea of the bump stock is rather incorrect. In fact you are pulling the trigger everytime the rifle fires. The bumping effect of the stock going back and forth just pulls the trigger in a speedy way. The sear reset after each shot and the recoil of the bump fires the next shot.
The bump stock works on the principle of the shooter pushed the rifle away from you rather the normal pulling the rifle back into you shoulder. But the recoil somewhat overrides the pushing forward and that motion is what sets and resets the trigger for fast action.

Your explanation is exactly how I see it being used. My thinking is adding it to your firearm is necessary to achieve that result which is why I think it would fall under the classification of converting a non-machine gun.
 

MK111

"Happy Hunting Grounds in the Sky"
Supporting Member
6,551
66
SW Ohio
Your explanation is exactly how I see it being used. My thinking is adding it to your firearm is necessary to achieve that result which is why I think it would fall under the classification of converting a non-machine gun.

Not really as you are converting nothing. The bump stock just changes the the function of firing to a faster function. As I stated the trigger is pulled for each shot but the bumping function just makes it fire faster.
A machine gun works on the principle of there is no hammer sear disconnect which permits the trigger to be held back and the firearm continues to fire until the trigger is release and the hammer sear is locked. With no disconnect sear the bolt just slides back and forth to fire and fire again until the trigger is released and hammer locks up.

FYI I found the firing of the bump stock rifle in fast shooting to be highly inaccurate. But with practice it may get better but no where near the accuracy of a slower shots pulled back into the shoulder shooting position.
 

Quantum673

Black Hat Cajun
Supporting Member
If I recall correctly the bump stock though was designed and manufactured to assist people that were physically impaired. So a product that was designed for physically challenged/disabled is being used in a manner not of its original intent.

So my question to everyone is would it be ok to limit the sale and ownership to only those that have a physical disability that the device was intended to help?

My biggest concern when making any regulations though is you give an inch they take a mile.
 

Beentown

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
15,740
154
Sunbury, OH
No, it wasn't designed for physical impairments. It also is not making a gun full-auto.

Trust in the fact the ATF tried every reasoning possible to ban them. The ATF is NOT on the side of gun owners/ownership.

We have had slide fires and other bumpstocks for years. ATF has looked at it from all directions.

Fugg .gov

Fugg giving in on ANY regulations (criminals won't follow them anyway.

Don't give them a fraction of an inch...nothing.
 

Wmiller07

Member
1,132
30
I think what people are missing is that you can bumpfire without the special stock. Its harder to do but can be done. In my opinion anything that gets around a law that is unconstitutional in the first place is good to go. The founding fathers would be disgusted at how many rights we have given up.
 

Quantum673

Black Hat Cajun
Supporting Member
No, it wasn't designed for physical impairments. It also is not making a gun full-auto.

Trust in the fact the ATF tried every reasoning possible to ban them. The ATF is NOT on the side of gun owners/ownership.

We have had slide fires and other bumpstocks for years. ATF has looked at it from all directions.

Fugg .gov

Fugg giving in on ANY regulations (criminals won't follow them anyway.

Don't give them a fraction of an inch...nothing.
Thanks for the clarification. Not sure where or if I read that some time ago.
 
No, it wasn't designed for physical impairments. It also is not making a gun full-auto.

Trust in the fact the ATF tried every reasoning possible to ban them. The ATF is NOT on the side of gun owners/ownership.

We have had slide fires and other bumpstocks for years. ATF has looked at it from all directions.

Fugg .gov

Fugg giving in on ANY regulations (criminals won't follow them anyway.

Don't give them a fraction of an inch...nothing.

Yeah I see now where they had reviewed them and they've been legal to this point.

I'm still shocked (sarcasm) that the media hasn't focused at all on the ammonium nitrate and 50 lbs. of Tannerite found in his vehicle....there at the hotel. Or the fact they found bullet holes in aviation fuel tanks there. Kinda goes to show if he did or didn't do it this way he had another plan to add to the carnage. Also shows how focused the media is on the Holy Grail called gun control.
 

Beentown

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
15,740
154
Sunbury, OH
Yeah I see now where they had reviewed them and they've been legal to this point.

I'm still shocked (sarcasm) that the media hasn't focused at all on the ammonium nitrate and 50 lbs. of Tannerite found in his vehicle....there at the hotel. Or the fact they found bullet holes in aviation fuel tanks there. Kinda goes to show if he did or didn't do it this way he had another plan to add to the carnage. Also shows how focused the media is on the Holy Grail called gun control.
Yeah, never let a tragedy go to waste. That is literally a motto for the Left.
 

"J"

Git Off My Lawn
Supporting Member
56,738
274
North Carolina
Bottom line in this whole fuggin process.... Nothing will ever change no matter what they outlaw.... They’ll try and ban it and the evil doer will find another way of making something else work to mow people down at a high rate.... If you think any different then you’re just fooling yourself.... Once a right is given up, its gone and you’ll never get it back... So be very careful on what you’re willing do roll over on....

Do I own a bump stock? Nope, never had any interest in it but 99.9% of them out there are being used by honest law abiding citizens.... Why should any of them have to give it up or have to be registered as owning one?Just so a few people will feel more comfortable? Sorry, it doesn’t work that way and if it starts, you better get ready for a landslide of rights afforded too us to come under fire....
 

Beentown

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
15,740
154
Sunbury, OH
They (the NRA) are trying to look like the good guy for asking the ATF to review the stocks. They k ow it has been beat to death already and they would remain legal under current law.

They are taking a beating with public (their public) reaction.
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
38,841
260
I feel everyone's idea of the bump stock is rather incorrect. In fact you are pulling the trigger everytime the rifle fires. The bumping effect of the stock going back and forth just pulls the trigger in a speedy way. The sear reset after each shot and the recoil of the bump fires the next shot.
The bump stock works on the principle of the shooter pushed the rifle away from you rather the normal pulling the rifle back into you shoulder. But the recoil somewhat overrides the pushing forward and that motion is what sets and resets the trigger for fast action.
Precisely. Here is a quick reset drop in trigger assembly that allows for "near full auto" performance. BATF cleared. Ban bump stocks. Spend a couple hundred more on a trigger group.

https://youtu.be/eQtCTUq4Y_I
 

Steelheadtracker

Junior Member
524
61
Its a huge deal. Start giving ground and whats next. They don't stop. Did the gays stop once they received the right to get married? No. They then started targeting people like bakeries, florists etc. Did the left stop with confederate statues, no, now they're going after statues of Lincoln, Jefferson, and columbus. You can't feed the alligator a snack and expect it to be full. It simply deepens their hunger.

Yup the classic slippery slope. Let the 2nd amendment go and it is downhill from there and before you know it we have no rights.