Here They Are: 2013-2014 Season Proposals

[Lundy]

I thought eliminating the harvest all of those deer that were being killed during the 2 day gun was critical to the recovery of the populations? I sure heard that a lot this past year.

The 2 day this year was 14,567, the 7 day gun was 86,964 for a total of 101,531. All indicators to me point to an increased harvest combining the OCT 2 day doe only MZ and the 7 day gun.

There has not been any indication, at any time, in any statement, anywhere, all year, that has indicated that the ODNR proposed changes in the regulations are to reduce overall harvest. A more focused doe reduction to change the buck to doe ratio is obvious, a reduction in overall harvest is nowhere to be seen, but some seem think it exists, the ODNR was counting on that fact I think.

My opinion. We will know this fall.

These changes won't effect how I hunt, I'll still kill my one deer

 

[hickslawns]

I thought eliminating the harvest all of those deer that were being killed during the 2 day gun was critical to the recovery of the populations? I sure heard that a lot this past year.

The 2 day this year was 14,567, the 7 day gun was 86,964 for a total of 101,531. All indicators to me point to an increased harvest combining the OCT 2 day doe only MZ and the 7 day gun.

There has not been any indication, at any time, in any statement, anywhere, all year, that has indicated that the ODNR proposed changes in the regulations are to reduce overall harvest. A more focused doe reduction to change the buck to doe ratio is obvious, a reduction in overall harvest is nowhere to be seen, but some seem think it exists, the ODNR was counting on that fact I think.

My opinion. We will know this fall.

These changes won't effect how I hunt, I'll still kill my one deer

I can agree with this for sure. My initial thoughts were very negative. When Joe put his theory on predicting this year's harvest up, it made sense to me. This could be positive for the population numbers. I don't think it was the intentions of the dnr, but it seems logical there could be a reduction in harvest. My feelings are mixed at this point. We will know next year at this time I suppose.

 

[Jackalope]

I can agree with this for sure. My initial thoughts were very negative. When Joe put his theory on predicting this year's harvest up, it made sense to me. This could be positive for the population numbers. I don't think it was the intentions of the dnr, but it seems logical there could be a reduction in harvest. My feelings are mixed at this point. We will know next year at this time I suppose.

As we've said all along. Limiting opportunity is the quickest way to reduce harvest. This early muzzy thing Introduces more limitations than bonus gun when compared side by side. Ole Lundy thinks we were given the bait and switch to shut us up. I don't think he's considered it may just be the opposite. The gun seasons were reduced in effectiveness but not days. They got rid of bonus gun like we wanted and replaced it with a less effective season so gun hunters can't piss and moan about loss of days. It's the same as if they made opening week the week long gun season and limited it to Muzzys instead of shotguns. Earlier time slot but overall its less effective. Or if they got rid of december bowhunting and gave us September with recurves only. I think you'll see the same or slightly more killed during early muzz than we did for bonus gun for the shear fact that it's the first two days of gun compared to two days after regular gun when a big chunk of deer are already dead. But combined with shotgun I think we'll see a harvest reduction. Time will tell. One thing is for sure. If you bow shoot a buck the week after the new muzz you better save the ribs for the warden that is sure to come knocking.

 

[Archertl]

It's got more things that I like then dislike.

Thats how I feel. I dont see the need for the early anterless muzzle loader weekend.

 

[finelyshedded]

I agree with Sam,Joe and others in that the standing corn,heat,bugs and thicket vegetation will tilt the odds in the deers favor. Like Joe stated earlier, the early muzzy and the extra two day gun in Dec. aren't even close when presented side by side. It is worth mentioning though that the deer were still pretty skidish during the 2 day gun because it was just 2 weeks after the 7 day gun.

Watch though, if the OFB isn't happy with the results in this years attempt in slaughtering the does during this years early muzzy they'll take a far more aggressive tactic to the ODNR the next year.

 

[Lundy]

Ole Lundy thinks we were given the bait and switch to shut us up. I don't think he's considered it may just be the opposite..

At least you acknowledge I am older, after the harvest exceeds 101,531 you will recognize the wiser part also, maybe..........., I doubt it.....could never admit it

 

[Jackalope]

At least you acknowledge I am older, after the harvest exceeds 101,531 you will recognize the wiser part also, maybe..........., I doubt it.....could never admit it

I'll always admit when I'm wrong. I've admitted it with you before. Its rare, but it happens. The reason it's rare is someone better bring a fact backed convincing argument that leaves little room for doubt and prove to me why I'm wrong. I enjoy our number crunching diatribes as you're a worthy adversary in that regard. That however doesn't mean I change my opinions if the argument lacks convincing proof.

 

[Flatlander]

I too believe there will be those who pattern big bucks for archery season who will wack em with a muzzy that weekend. It's a heck of a lot easier to get close enough to take them with a muzzy than it would be with an arrow. I also agree that the muzzy weekend will change the pattern of the deer. Not much different than gun opener once the deer start hearing the blast. That's really the only part of the proposals I don't like, but then again, I am a bowhunter so there is some bias on my part.

 

[MK111]

I agree with Sam,Joe and others in that the standing corn,heat,bugs and thicket vegetation will tilt the odds in the deers favor. Like Joe stated earlier, the early muzzy and the extra two day gun in Dec. aren't even close when presented side by side. It is worth mentioning though that the deer were still pretty skidish during the 2 day gun because it was just 2 weeks after the 7 day gun.

Watch though, if the OFB isn't happy with the results in this years attempt in slaughtering the does during this years early muzzy they'll take a far more aggressive tactic to the ODNR the next year.

I can't aggree here on these conditions tilting the odds in the deer favor. If all these odds are against us then why are we bowhunters hunting at this time of the year? Even though I am a new bowhunter I can only see how it will be 10 times easier for a ML hunter to take a deer than a bowhunter taking a deer in this same timeframe.
The only limiting factor I really see is the fact it must be a ML only. So I really see the sales of ML rifles increasing this year for new ML hunters that don't already own a ML.
The state wants the doe population reduced and they are bowing to the pressure to do so. I'm still surprised the state didn't go to the Earn a Buck concept as other states did. And I surely don't want to see that but I see it coming in the future.
Frank

 

[CritterGitterToo]

First of all, I will never be a fan of telling a hunter he can NOT shoot that buck. I think it's a very bad move. Plus, muzzys shoot pretty far. So, what if a guy didn't see the spikes on that doe's head? WTF! Honest mistake turns a guy into a poacher.

Second, I'll accept that not every hunter is against this. However, it certainly seems like the majority are either not happy about it, or freakin HATE it. The overwhelming majority think negative in regard to this idea. Yet, the ODNR act like this is something hunters want. NO! No, they clearly don't. Yet, they are doing it anyway. That's kind of a big fat middle finger to hunters if you ask me. Just one more reason why I am very seriously considering taking my recreational dollars elsewhere.

 

[reo]

After digesting the proposals for a few days and listening to others opinions my thoughts are this:

This does lay the ground work for better management but this year I see no significant reduction in harvest and the early muzzy season has the possibility of even increasing it. We will have to wait and see.

It is even more apparent then ever that deer hunters need a unified voice to counter the OFB who if they get their way would have populations reduced to almost nothing. This is the most important thing that we must come to grips with. We need a better voice/more seats at the table. The OFB is running the show. We need an organized voice that does not get a wrapped up in other issues that are could be divisive, that has the one and only goal of speaking for deer hunters and advocates for higher populations. Period. Until this happens I fear we will get "changes" like this that don't change shit.

 

[dante322]

If all these odds are against us then why are we bowhunters hunting at this time of the year? Even though I am a new bowhunter I can only see how it will be 10 times easier for a ML hunter to take a deer than a bowhunter taking a deer in this same timeframe.

Those odds ARE against us at that time of the year. Early season we find ourselves wishing the leaves would start falling so you can see further into the woods, and wishing the corn would come off because the deer are all in there. Those same limitations will apply with a muzzy. The difference is going to be the drives that take place through standing corn.

We hunt early season because the deer are still somewhat on a summer pattern. They havent really felt pressured yet so they are a little less cautious. The fact that the weather is more comfortable doesn't hurt either.

There are a lot of factors that will come into play with an early gun season. The biggest being the "no buck" policy. That would seem more like a deterrent than anything else. Its already been stated on here several times that without the possibility of shooting a buck, a lot of guys wont be out there at all. but then again the warmer conditions, unpressured deer, and standing corn could bring them out in droves. I am more concerned about the impact this will all have on the rut. I would hate to see the bucks go nocturnal so early and have the mature bucks limit their rutting activity to nighttime only.

 

[dante322]

another thing about the antlerless only policy. Around here we have hunted the does to a point where they are all but nonexistant. During the rut, the activity is brief. The few does that are still around get bred early, and the bucks move on to look for more. If you hunt a spot that doesn't have a lot of does, shooting them early is a bad idea, let the other guys kill them off from other areas, and when the rut rolls in, the buckes will show up in your spot because you still have what they are looking for.

 

[Lundy]

I'm sure you all have read the justification issued by the ODNR for the proposed changes.

They stated they were replacing the 2 day gun season with the 2 day early MZ because the "bonus" 2 day had lost some appeal and resulted in a reduced harvest.

I can't find anywhere the part about wanting to reduce the harvest The ODNR sure hopes that harvest increases, that is clear

I found it amazing how much hunter buy in they got for this season change. 63% of all hunters and 43% of achery only hunters? Are these the low information voters?

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=S5XUPmzN71s=&tabid=24075

 

[finelyshedded]

I can't aggree here on these conditions tilting the odds in the deer favor. If all these odds are against us then why are we bowhunters hunting at this time of the year? Even though I am a new bowhunter I can only see how it will be 10 times easier for a ML hunter to take a deer than a bowhunter taking a deer in this same timeframe.
The only limiting factor I really see is the fact it must be a ML only. So I really see the sales of ML rifles increasing this year for new ML hunters that don't already own a ML.
The state wants the doe population reduced and they are bowing to the pressure to do so. I'm still surprised the state didn't go to the Earn a Buck concept as other states did. And I surely don't want to see that but I see it coming in the future.
Frank

Tilting the odds in their favor isn't quite the right way I meant to put it Frank. Lol. Yes, we all know muzzy trumps bow/xbow when pertaining to range and effectiveness. I was just wanting to say that this muzzy 2 day doe only hunt won't be as easy as it sounds. I hope a lot of bowhunters don't even participate as to not wanting to stir up the deer movement to bad.

As for why we/I bowhunt during the early season? I'm a bowhunting addict,love the challenge and the chase,been jacked for the season to start all summer long and I try to get a mature buck down before they change their pattern. How many days till opening day? Lol

Good points Dante!

 

[MK111]

Don't get wrong here now. I totally disaggree with this whole new set of regs. I'm still in believing the doe only ML season is a bad idea.
It's going to screw up the bowhunting for weeks to come.
It's going to result in a alot of does and button bucks being shot off.
It's going to put alot of new ML hunters into the field for years to come. And this number will grow every year in my mind which mean more does killed off in the future to futher lowering the deer number.
Shooting off the does will mean lower deer numbers in the years to come. Plus you will have the future loss of buck by the button bucks shot off.

Overall I think the State thought this through very well for the end result of a lower deer number in the future. They bowed under to the outside pressure. The sad point is the end result won't be known for years then it will be too late. Then a rebuild cycle will have to be done but I don't believe a rebuild cycle will be permitted once the numbers are lowered.
A sad state of affairs in Ohio deer hunting.
IMHO
Frank

 

[hickslawns]

IF. . . .(big if), I am out, it will only be because one of my kids wants to hunt. I will not deny my children an opportunity if they are adamant about wanting to hunt.

I agree with Lundy on one point for sure: I foresee this change making the gun week a little more productive. Guys will put a little more emphasis on "git'r'dun" ing the gun week.

 

[finelyshedded]

I can't believe 43% of bowhunters were actually for this in the first place!!! Why would they if you can't legally kill a buck that weekend! I'd say the ODNR mislead some hunters with this survey,IMO.

 

[MK111]

I can't believe 43% of bowhunters were actually for this in the first place!!! Why would they if you can't legally kill a buck that weekend! I'd say the ODNR mislead some hunters with this survey,IMO.

It's all in the wording. My son was taking a questionier years ago and one question was "when did you stop beating your wife" and another was "when did you stop using illegal drugs". Of course if you did neither you couldn't answer the question correctly.
Frank

 

[OHsneaky1]

I just want to point out that a neighboring state WV implemented this "Early Muzzle Doe season" Last fall. Take a look at thier kill numbers. They were DOWN. It's not a numbers thing. An early muzzle season will do nothing. I'm not sure what the point to the early muzzle season is? If anyone truely knows please enlighten me.