Wildlife Council Hears Proposals for 2012-13 Deer Hunting Seasons

Jackalope · Feb 9, 2012

Darron said:
If I am reading this correct, zone C is still a 6 deer limit because of the antlerless tags? I wish they would make it a 3 deer limit PERIOD!

Won't do any good.. Something like only 2-3% of hunters shoot more than 3 deer anyway... Setting the limit back at 3 deer will only keep 3% of hunters from shooting one or two aditional deer.. That is so minuscule...

Here is where you are going to see the biggest benefit from this.... Nolonger will Harrell, Larrel, and Darrel head to the tag station the night before gun season and buy all 3 antlerless tags.. Then strike out the next week looking to fill them all because it's use them or lose them..... Going in to gun they will have three $24 tags if they haven't shot a buck.. If they have shot a buck or are saving for a buck, they will go into gun season with two 2$4 tags... Those two tags are all they will have for all of gun, bonus gun, muzzy, and the rest of bow season.

Jackalope · Feb 9, 2012

Gern186 said:
Keep in mind that these are proposals and not set in stone......I think the heat still needs to be turned up to make sure these changes are implemented.

Buddy I'm not done even if they pass. lol... But showing a willingness to adapt instead of ignoring stuff and charging forward will make me more tactful and cooperative my approach vs crying for someones head...

brock ratcliff · Feb 9, 2012

Jackalope said:
Buddy I'm not done even if they pass. lol... But showing a willingness to adapt instead of ignoring stuff and charging forward will make me more tactful and cooperative my approach vs crying for someones head...

I gotta tell ya, I'm surprised this is enough to temper your rage. Really, it isn't going to make much of a difference in the kill, but will give 'em an excuse for lower harvest numbers next year. I do agree it is refreshing to see them show a little bit of restraint at least in areas. I think it also shows just how low they want the herd as I don't think any of the changes will promote regrowth in the areas that are depleted. Still, its a step.

Jackalope · Feb 9, 2012

brock ratcliff said:
I gotta tell ya, I'm surprised this is enough to temper your rage. Really, it isn't going to make much of a difference in the kill, but will give 'em an excuse for lower harvest numbers next year. I do agree it is refreshing to see them show a little bit of restraint at least in areas. I think it also shows just how low they want the herd as I don't think any of the changes will promote regrowth in the areas that are depleted. Still, its a step.

Don't get me wrong Brock. I'm not going away.. What sparked my rage was being completely ignored and them charging forward.. Showing even a willingness to move in the right direction is enough to calm me down a bit and willing to work in a more constructive manner.... I will still compile data, post it, make comments, and prove my point. And hopefully we'll keep moving this in the right direction.. As for the population, the damage is done my man, it will be years before we see a positive improvement.. They don't move fast and have always been calculated. I don't think this is nearly enough, but I don't expect it to all change overnight. I think the removal of antlerless tags from Zone C is the next best thing to removing bonus gun. No matter what they did this reg change we will still have lower numbers next year overall... It's 2 seasons from now where we will see a change.. Like moving Fayette back to zone A this year.. You will not see a difference this year. But you might next season if it's working. I'm not done by a long shot buddy.. I would have been happy to see some Zone C counties slide into B.. But hey. We'll see.

brock ratcliff · Feb 9, 2012

I agree these things take time.

LonewolfNopack · Feb 13, 2012

rgecko23 said:
The doe population in C is waaay down. I can tell you that by all the people that hunt around me. More bucks then doe in this area in a long time. I mean, to me thats good/bad. Good that the bucks will have to cruise more and search harder for doe, bad that after the rut, deer are extremely scarce

I can attest for that as well. I live in northern highland county which puts me in zone C. Northern Highland county sits directly below southern Fayette county, which we all know is the worst county for deer in the state, and is in zone A. I am hunting virtually the same type of habitat that is in Fayette county, with the same virtually non existent deer population, but because I am several miles below an imaginary county line I am allowed to shoot 4 more does if I could/wanted to?? That makes no sense to me. Out of the deer that i did see this season, the majority seemed to be bucks. That seems all fine and dandy to some people right now, but how about in two years when there are no more does to keep producing all of these bucks? I bet some ill educated hunters will be crying then. Everyone seems so gungho about bucks, but yet they seem to forget that it takes mutiple does to make all of those bucks. Other states have micro managed their game populations for years, there is no reason Ohio cant. I guess that wouldn't fit the agenda of those who have the most influence over our deer herd though, which certainly is not hunters.

brock ratcliff · Feb 13, 2012

LonewolfNopack said:
I can attest for that as well. I live in northern highland county which puts me in zone C. Northern Highland county sits directly below southern Fayette county, which we all know is the worst county for deer in the state, and is in zone A. I am hunting virtually the same type of habitat that is in Fayette county, with the same virtually non existent deer population, but because I am several miles below an imaginary county line I am allowed to shoot 4 more does if I could/wanted to?? That makes no sense to me. Out of the deer that i did see this season, the majority seemed to be bucks. That seems all fine and dandy to some people right now, but how about in two years when there are no more does to keep producing all of these bucks? I bet some ill educated hunters will be crying then. Everyone seems so gungho about bucks, but yet they seem to forget that it takes mutiple does to make all of those bucks. Other states have micro managed their game populations for years, there is no reason Ohio cant. I guess that wouldn't fit the agenda of those who have the most influence over our deer herd though, which certainly is not hunters.

That is a hard concept for some to grasp. I live in the same region. The tag limits make no sense in northern Highland, while in the southern part of Highland County there are still deer...not as many as there was, but still enough to expect to see some when you hunt. Sad thing is this area was as enjoyable to hunt as any other a few years ago. I will go so far as to say I could hunt everyday of the season in northern Highland and not have the opportunity to kill 6. It's hard to imagine unless you've tried.....Any thoughts on that Joe, you've been here?

Jackalope · Feb 13, 2012

LonewolfNopack said:
I can attest for that as well. I live in northern highland county which puts me in zone C. Northern Highland county sits directly below southern Fayette county, which we all know is the worst county for deer in the state, and is in zone A. I am hunting virtually the same type of habitat that is in Fayette county, with the same virtually non existent deer population, but because I am several miles below an imaginary county line I am allowed to shoot 4 more does if I could/wanted to?? That makes no sense to me. Out of the deer that i did see this season, the majority seemed to be bucks. That seems all fine and dandy to some people right now, but how about in two years when there are no more does to keep producing all of these bucks? I bet some ill educated hunters will be crying then. Everyone seems so gungho about bucks, but yet they seem to forget that it takes mutiple does to make all of those bucks. Other states have micro managed their game populations for years, there is no reason Ohio cant. I guess that wouldn't fit the agenda of those who have the most influence over our deer herd though, which certainly is not hunters.

Another excellent post and point. I said even a couple years ago when I first started noticing problems. The problem isn't with the bucks, it appears as though we still have as many of those. But our doe population is absent. And you're right.. We have 6 doe limit and a 1 buck limit. Logic would prevail that we can rapidly reduce our doe population while leaving the already born bucks relatively unchanged. But after a few years we may very well see a sharp decline in the buck population too as there aren't as many being born and just as many being killed. Interesting that you have made the same buck to doe observation in highland as I did in Vinton 3-4 years ago.

Jackalope · Feb 13, 2012

brock ratcliff said:
That is a hard concept for some to grasp. I live in the same region. The tag limits make no sense in northern Highland, while in the southern part of Highland County there are still deer...not as many as there was, but still enough to expect to see some when you hunt. Sad thing is this area was as enjoyable to hunt as any other a few years ago. I will go so far as to say I could hunt everyday of the season in northern Highland and not have the opportunity to kill 6. It's hard to imagine unless you've tried.....Any thoughts on that Joe, you've been here?

Lets see.. 8 or so people.. 1 full day of drives.. Nonstop even for lunch sunup to sundown covering untold miles.. 1 deer shot early, 1 deer missed early.. Nothing all day until last light where 3 were seen (doe and 2 yearlings) and 1 killed. putting the kill at 2 for the day... I bet we drove every woodlot, ditch, and short crp, for 3 miles and saw 5 deer total.

brock ratcliff · Feb 13, 2012

Jackalope said:
Lets see.. 8 or so people.. 1 full day of drives.. Nonstop even for lunch sunup to sundown covering untold miles.. 1 deer shot early, 1 deer missed early.. Nothing all day until last light where 3 were seen (doe and 2 yearlings) and 1 killed. putting the kill at 2 for the day... I bet we drove every woodlot, ditch, and short crp, for 3 miles and saw 5 deer total.

uh huh, and what did you think of the habitat? Did it look like something that should support a deer population? I'll answer that- it used to be AWESOME!

Jackalope · Feb 13, 2012

brock ratcliff said:
uh huh, and what did you think of the habitat? Did it look like something that should support a deer population? I'll answer that- it used to be AWESOME!

The terrain we walked that day was.. One section was a large tract of mature timber with deep hills and hollows bordering AG and CRP. About two miles away the land was flat as can be with abuot a 80/20 mix of tillable to woodlots.. The two miles in between was a mix of rolling hills with about 20% wooded draws 20% tillable and 60% short CRP. We even pushed a tract that was a timbered draw with tops strewn about bordered on both sides by expansive crp... Nada..

1 deer shot in the timber, 1 deer missed in the timber.. 1 deer shot in the woodlot that was 80/20 tillable to woodlot. and ZERO deer driven out of the 2 square miles of CRP/AG/ Wooded draws.. By all means there should have been deer flying out of every hole we pushed.

mrex · Feb 13, 2012

brock ratcliff said:
uh huh, and what did you think of the habitat? Did it look like something that should support a deer population? I'll answer that- it used to be AWESOME!

We have good habitat in Athens County and lots of public hunting with the same liberal bag limits and seasons yet our #'s are good...why is that?

Jackalope · Feb 13, 2012

mrex said:
We have good habitat in Athens County and lots of public hunting with the same liberal bag limits and seasons yet our #'s are good...why is that?

Could be any number of factors Mike. In the end though it doesn't matter a hill of beans to the guys kicking the bushes that day. The deer were there, now they aren't.. To me as a hunter that's all that I need to concern myself with... It's the DNRs job not only to recognize what happened, but figure out why and rectify it. It's called "management".

As for probable reasons to look at.. The impact EHD had on that specific county.. Hunter density.. Hunter success rates. That counties fawn mortality rates due to predation.. etc etc.. These are all things that can vary greatly county to county and are not being taken into consideration one iota with a "Zone C" mentality. As a result such management practices (or lack thereof) that may be good for Athens are destroying other counties that for whatever reason can't handle it. That "reason" is the whole goal behind this quest. Personally I believe the powers that be know exactly what the problem is, they simply choose to ignore it as it ultimately fits their end goal. Which is reduction in numbers. With such a large management area in one zone some counties will feel the pain far greater than others.

LonewolfNopack · Feb 13, 2012

I have a 17 acre CRP warm season grass field that use to crawl with deer. Next to that I have 20 acres of early growth hardwoods that were all hand planted 10 years ago because my family loves the outdoors and wanted to be able to enjoy a healthy wildlife population on our property. My neighbor to my left as a corn field that sits directly next to my CRP field. He also has 3 acres of the thickest junk i've ever seen. My neighbor to the north has a 60 acre woodlot which is huge and almost unheard of in my part of the county. He also has 20 acres of pasture. My neighbor to the east of me has 120 acres of mixed woodlands, crop fields, and CRP fields. Really excellent deer habitat. What I am describing is what I consider some of the best habitat in my part of the county. I say this because as soon as you leave the four properties I just mentioned, it turns into a desert of huge crop fields, with tiny isolated wood lots. There is hardly even any fence lines left. The area i described was at one time the best hunting I believe in the northern part of the county. Now with the limit being 6 deer and all of the extended seasons we have experienced the last several years, I would get excited just to find a deer track in the snow. I just checked my trail cam which had been out for around a week. I have 3 does that I could tell were different that came in, two of them had broken legs. Of those two, one looked like he was bound to die. Also had one lone surviving little buck. This is over a pile of corn that in the past had been covered with deer. What was once an enjoyable hobby to me has turned into something completely different. I spent an hour the other day scraping the hunting decals off of my truck. I don't even wanna be associated with this crap any more, makes me sick. Senseless, needless slaughter. I will be spending a lot of time hunting squirrels and trapping next season.

brock ratcliff · Feb 13, 2012

mrex said:
We have good habitat in Athens County and lots of public hunting with the same liberal bag limits and seasons yet our #'s are good...why is that?

Haven't a clue. Vinton has essentially the same habitat as Athens, yet not the same number of deer. Does Tonk know why? Is it acknowledged there is a substantial difference in regions? If so, why the same bag limits for such huge, diverse areas?

brock ratcliff · Feb 13, 2012

Jackalope said:
Lets see.. 8 or so people.. 1 full day of drives.. Nonstop even for lunch sunup to sundown covering untold miles.. 1 deer shot early, 1 deer missed early.. Nothing all day until last light where 3 were seen (doe and 2 yearlings) and 1 killed. putting the kill at 2 for the day... I bet we drove every woodlot, ditch, and short crp, for 3 miles and saw 5 deer total.

Maybe I should add that the landowner felt there were too many deer, and I agreed to shoot every antlerless deer we could find if he'd allow me to bring in a gang of "killas" for a couple of days of driving. BTW, the landowner couldn't get it through his head there were far fewer deer than had been for the last 20 years...until this season when he opened the property back up to anyone that wanted to hunt. His property was covered with hunters during all firearms seasons this year. They killed one six point buck, and he thinks some of the out of staters got a doe but isn't certain it was killed on his farm. Joe, all the ammo you brought wouldn't have been enough ten years ago.

RedCloud · Feb 13, 2012

I don't know if the weather hasn't been harsh enough to get the doe to yard up like last year or not but I haven't seen the deer like I did last year at this time of year.

Last year 25+ deer in one pic.

This year around the same time the most I have had at one time on cam is 5 with one being a BB

Also keep in mind that I have free range of 2 country blocks and almost 1000 continues acres of ground. Dante and myself walked 3/4 of this ground yesterday and with snow on the ground we can count on one hand how many sets of tracks we cut across. Like I said, I don't know if the mild winter just doesn't have them herded up like last year or not but the tracks and doe just aren't there this year. I also can not rule out one of the neighboring property owners from standing on his back deck and shooting anything that walks in range either but that's another story in it's self.

brock ratcliff · Feb 13, 2012

Holly smokes, thats a lot of deer! If you had 'em like that last year, and they were gone this year, I don't see how that can be blamed on the ODOW. They were there after season apparently. You may have a poacher running wild!

Gern186 · Feb 13, 2012

The deer aren't herded up this year at all like they normally are, this can easily be explained by the lack of winter showing up and the deer can find food anywhere they look. There are small groups of deer around home, most of them being 10-15 at a time, but no big groups of 80-100 like I have seen in the past.

hickslawns · Feb 13, 2012

I feel the numbers are down, but I won't throw the ODNR under the bus for everything. I have not seen deer yarding up this winter either. I just figured it was due to the mild winter. I did see 6-8 in the field last night. Small groups here and there to be found this year. Last year it seemed like they were in bigger groups. Last year we had cold temperatures and snow on the ground that stuck around for weeks and months at a time though. I could also be wrong. Maybe it has nothing to do with the weather this winter and we can blame the ODNR just for the fun of it.lmao

Wildlife Council Hears Proposals for 2012-13 Deer Hunting Seasons

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