Open house meet-greet

hickslawns said:

Hope you didn't attend Sam. They threw the farmers under the bus. I asked about coon damage. They said farmers can kill all the coons they want. Coons not the problem. Problem are the deer. I asked about damage permits. He said those are up to the farmers. Claimed 80% of damage permits are never filled. Claimed the farmers use permits as an excuse as to why they don't allow hunters then never fill them. When asked if they were pacifying the farmers and insurance companies they pointed at the farmers. Claimed insurance companies don't care. Said they occasionally get calls from the motorists hitting deer, but insurance companies just pass the costs onto their customers and really don't care. They said the only ones complaining about too many deer are the farmers. They redirected all complaints about not seeing deer at the farmers in the meeting I attended. It was less than impressive. I only saw one person there who seemed to be concerned about their farm. That was the older lady that seemed a little bit off.

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No surprise there. But In 2006 there were 2214 crop damage complaints. Every year since the number was lower then in '06, with 2010 Being 1469 which is a drop of 33%. Of course they'll say that was the 2010 acorn crop. I cant wait to see how many compliants there are for 2011.

Jackalope said:

I feel that i should throw this out there as I don't want to throw bill under the bus. He was a nice guy very friendly and talked in length with many many people. Even told stories and was always willing to answer questions. It was only when deer numbers were mentioned did the atmosphere and persona of the conversation change.

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i will echo that. bill was very personable and a pleasure to talk to. i enjoyed our conversation.

Ohiosam said:

They knew every argument you guys had before you got there. Responses were preplanned.

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they only knew surface stuff sam. there is more to come...

mrex said:

I spoke with Mike Tonkovich at length after the event and he thought the afternoon was very constructive. He spent the last week at a deer management conference in Florida and we discussed some of the new information now available regarding coyote predation...interesting stuff.

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Holy fuck...I did some drinking already tonight, but you've gotta be kidding me. Florida to talk about deer? Someone please tell the state that I'm selling my ocean front property in Idaho...

Ohiosam said:

They knew every argument you guys had before you got there. Responses were preplanned.

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I agree with Sam on this......I figure they had an 8 hr briefing and was ready for the sticky spots prior to any questions asked.

Huckleberry Finn said:

Holy fuck...I did some drinking already tonight, but you've gotta be kidding me. Florida to talk about deer? Someone please tell the state that I'm selling my ocean front property in Idaho...

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I doubt the conference was about Florida deer management, Huck. It was probably just a kushy place for a bunch of big wigs to meet. I'm sure there were biologists and managers from all over the country at that conference.

JBrown said:

I doubt the conference was about Florida deer management, Huck. It was probably just a kushy place for a bunch of big wigs to meet. I'm sure there were biologists and managers from all over the country at that conference.

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He's been drinking... Cut em a little slack...lol... I hope he knows they aren't talking about the deer management job being done in florida....:smiley_chinrub:

JBrown said:

I doubt the conference was about Florida deer management, Huck. It was probably just a kushy place for a bunch of big wigs to meet. I'm sure there were biologists and managers from all over the country at that conference.

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I don't have a problem with kushy, it just doesn't make a bit of sense to me why you'd hold it in Florida. Iowa? PA? Kansas? Not Ohio, we don't have deerz...

Huckleberry Finn said:

I don't have a problem with kushy, it just doesn't make a bit of sense to me why you'd hold it in Florida. Iowa? PA? Kansas? Not Ohio, we don't have deerz...

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You don't actually have to be near deer to manage them, Next year the meeting is going to be in hawaii

I just don't think you could have expected any more than you got yesterday.

The DNR believes the deer population goals have not been met yet in many areas. Evidenced by the plan to move 7 counties from A to B and only one county from B to A. They will move forward with their plans to manage the deer population in Ohio in what they believe is the best interest of all involved and there isn't any real opposing position to alter that plan.

There is no outcry about the deer populations by hunters. What is going on here and a couple of other websites hardly constitutes a whimper, it's not even a bark and certainly no bite to it. As difficult as that is to accept, it is just a reality.

What some have described as defering to a script answer when asked about deer populations could well have been just an answer of what they believe to be true. I heard the same general answers from the fisheries guys when they were questioned about size limits for saugeyes and walleye populations in Erie, etc, etc. Just because the same answer is given does not necessarily imply scripting.

If there was a meeting ahead of time on how to address disgruntled deer hunters and I was the point guy designated to answer those questions. I am pretty certain that I would stick with very defined responses and wouldn't deviate much. Especially if I had the opportunity beforehand to read some of the comments on a few of the websites where some of the members think I'm a MF,er, cocksucker, idiot, brainless, son of a bitch, money grubbing sell out whore to the insurance companies. Yeah baby, those are the guys I want to talk to and work with on thier concerns!

If the roles had been reversed how would you have responded to a tiny finge minority that openly speaks that way about you and your abilities?

welcome to public work lundy...our senators put up with way worse than that

With all the talk about the experiences yesterday, the media releases, and a few posts alluding to the goals not yet being reached, I think the ODNR needs to be more transparent with their goals by county and method(s) / model(s) for measuring success.

Perhaps the details are out there and it is simply an awareness thing..so, if someone has seen them or has a link, post it up.

I struggle with the concept that we can't predict the herd size with any accuracy and as a result no longer will a number be made public. I am all ears as to how (regardless of industry) one can say a reduction target hasn't been achieved when you don't have an accurate starting point.

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huntn2 said:

With all the talk about the experiences yesterday, the media releases, and a few posts alluding to the goals not yet being reached, I think the ODNR needs to be more transparent with their goals by county and method(s) / model(s) for measuring success.

Perhaps the details are out there and it is simply an awareness thing..so, if someone has seen them or has a link, post it up.

I struggle with the concept that we can't predict the herd size with any accuracy and as a result no longer will a number be made public. I am all ears as to how (regardless of industry) one can say a reduction target hasn't been achieved when you don't have an accurate starting point.

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Everything you just posted makes way too much sense!!

Even if the DNR has trouble getting a good handle on the populations, they certainly should have target populations or deer density targets. I don't think anyone outside of the DNR actually knows what those population targets are. It could very well be that what some hunters perceive as a low population number in some areas is actually just the target population for the DNR. Could be the new normal.

It is pretty obvious that there is still an effort to reduce the populations further statewide to move more towards targeted goals. With the proposed changes this year of moving some counties from A to B and the possible introduction of a statewide October antlerless season.


Milo,

I don't disagree about elected officials in our government hearing even worse, no doubt about it. I also think they probably don't pay much attention to them either.

What ever the polpulation goal is....they are saying that most counties are still 25% over that arbitrary number.

Lundy said:

Everything you just posted makes way too much sense!!

Even if the DNR has trouble getting a good handle on the populations, they certainly should have target populations or deer density targets. I don't think anyone outside of the DNR actually knows what those population targets are. It could very well be that what some hunters perceive as a low population number in some areas is actually just the target population for the DNR. Could be the new normal.

It is pretty obvious that there is still an effort to reduce the populations further statewide to move more towards targeted goals. With the proposed changes this year of moving some counties from A to B and the possible introduction of a statewide October antlerless season.


Milo,

I don't disagree about elected officials in our government hearing even worse, no doubt about it. I also think they probably don't pay much attention to them either.

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Agreed Lundy, But when hunters are your BIGGEST AND BEST MANAGEMENT TOOL, why in the hell aren't they communicating with us in a true cooperative effort? That is asinine, exclusionary and inexcusable. They know everything they do is public information and can be exposed at any time. It would make more sense that they publish the information in a true "public knowledge, we need your help" attitude. All we get is "we have more work to do" but nobody knows how much. I have found hit and miss information about population goals for certain counties but there is nothing out there designating such information for the entire state. now i will also point out the fact tat yesterday they stated that some areas of ohio MAY have reached their target population. Are they supposed to be protecting these areas in a true conservative regulations and harvests? I personally find the answer a cop out. They are supposed to know this information. I find equally questionable that each county can have a target population goal but we somehow don't have an overall herd total for ohio goal.

Here Lundy,

http://www.iowadnr.gov/portals/idnr/uploads/Hunting/bow_survey.pdf?amp;tabid=1510

And...they seem to have a better approach to this than Ohio does.....

http://www.iowadnr.gov/Hunting/LandownerAssistance/WildlifeDamageManagement.aspx

cruise around and see how much information is out there for people to look at..

Hello everyone, I was told about this forum from a gentleman I met yesterday at the D1 open house yesterday. I definitely recognize quite a few screennames on here as he said I would.

I left about as aggravated as I have the last 3 years, the circular rhetoric they use when you bring up certain subjects gets old.

To the poster who mentioned the crop damage permits and how they aren't used. I specifically brought this up because my in-laws (who hunt as well) wanted me to ask why they can no longer be used during deer season(s) as it is very hard to process the deer when we shoot them in the summer and we end up wasting a lot of the meat (in comparison to the deer we harvest during the fall seasons). The answer I got was that the ODNR pretty much doesn't care about the wasting of the meat, the permits are to kill the deer damaging the crops and if you shoot them in june or july they won't continue to eat, but if you shoot them in season they have already ate the crops. I tried to reason with the ODNR official regarding how distasteful that sounds to me and my in-laws but he said "you're either worried about the crop damage or you're a hunter, not both". I was very frustrated with that and after talking to my father-in-law he said they may not get any more crop damage permits b/c wasting the meat is not worth it for him.

Hedgelj said:

Hello everyone, I was told about this forum from a gentleman I met yesterday at the D1 open house yesterday. I definitely recognize quite a few screennames on here as he said I would.

I left about as aggravated as I have the last 3 years, the circular rhetoric they use when you bring up certain subjects gets old.

To the poster who mentioned the crop damage permits and how they aren't used. I specifically brought this up because my in-laws (who hunt as well) wanted me to ask why they can no longer be used during deer season(s) as it is very hard to process the deer when we shoot them in the summer and we end up wasting a lot of the meat (in comparison to the deer we harvest during the fall seasons). The answer I got was that the ODNR pretty much doesn't care about the wasting of the meat, the permits are to kill the deer damaging the crops and if you shoot them in june or july they won't continue to eat, but if you shoot them in season they have already ate the crops. I tried to reason with the ODNR official regarding how distasteful that sounds to me and my in-laws but he said "you're either worried about the crop damage or you're a hunter, not both". I was very frustrated with that and after talking to my father-in-law he said they may not get any more crop damage permits b/c wasting the meat is not worth it for him.

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welcome brother, hope you stick around. the more opinions the better even if they aren't aligned to mine. Tell your friends:smiley_bril:

Welcome to the site Hedgelj!