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600 Spine for 45# recurve?

I'm currently shooting a Fleetwood Knight recurve that's 66" and 41# @ my 28 1/2" draw.
My arrows are Beman ICS Bowhunter 500 carbon fletched with 5" 3 fletch @ 30".

To get good arrow flight, I'm having to use 200 grains of tip weight. Two 50 gr. internal tip weights threaded into the back of the insert and a 100 gr. field tip. I'm not happy with this set up for trajectory reasons. Plus, I think this shaft is too stiff, despite manufacturer's recommendations...which is subjective to their liability and the reason behind their chart recommendations.

*** I'm considering a 600 spine Gold Tip arrow, left at the full length of 32" and only use the 100 gr. field tip weight.
My reasoning behind this thought is:
A weaker spine would flex more, thus allowing better flight.
A longer shaft would flex more, thus allowing better flight.
A lighter tip weight would flatten the trajectory.
The added 2" of shaft weight wouldn't interfere with what I'm attempting to gain in better flight.

Any of this make sense to anyone else?
Pure insanity? Over thought?

Bowhunter57
 

OO2

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In the Uplands
I will say this. I had arrows that weren’t spined high enough and they flew like a javelin through the air. Switched to a stiffer arrow with 200gr heads and they fly like darts.
 
Just ran across this posting...

I switched to a 600 spine arrow with 3" feathers and 125 gr. tips. They fly excellent!
However, I bought some 45# limbs too. The combination of increased draw weight and lighter tip weights with the weaker 600 spine has greatly improved the flight of these arrows. Also, my trajectory has flattened out and my max range is extended to 45 yards.

When I get a chance, I'll chronograph this set up, to calculate my K.E., for hunting purposes.
 
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jagermeister

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Why would a weak spined arrow that flexes more than normal result in better arrow flight? I'm new to trad archery, but this goes against everything I've ever known in shooting compounds.
 

jagermeister

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Also be sure to shoot through the chrono at target distance as well as point blank. I'm curious how much speed you lose (or don't) at distance with that light arrow.
 
"I'm curious how much speed you lose (or don't) at distance with that light arrow."

It's a traditional bow, so the "dragster" or "speed demon" mentality doesn't apply. Good arrow flight is all I'm after, to attain better accuracy and thus better penetration for hunting.
Carbon arrows, by way of their manufacture cover too wide of a variety of bow draw weights. This covers the company producing them for liability, but doesn't necessarily improve flight characteristics when they're being shot from other bows of different draw weights, lengths, tabs vs. gloves, etc.

An example of this would be shooting a 55# recurve with aluminum 2213 arrows, cut to 30" @ a 29" draw length with perfect flight for both field tips and broadheads. There are similar spines in aluminum that will work with the same style fletching, like 2216, 2117, 2114, 2016, and 2013. Too heavy or too light of a spine will cause arrow flight issues with aluminum which are very similar to carbon.

All of this can be summed up to Manufacturer Liability!
When archers started using overdraws, cutting arrow length, adding speed cams, etc. It increased the speed and flattened the trajectory, but at the same time bows were "blowing up" and people were getting injured. This was in the late 80s and early 90s that Hoyt/Easton changed their suggestions for their arrow chart. Suddenly 2213s weren't suggested for the 50# to 60# weight draw. They were suggested for 35# to 45# weight draw and 2219s and 2316s were suggested for the same 50# to 60# weight draw. Reasoning? Liability.

So... Is a 600 spine carbon arrow suggested for 45# weight draw with a 29" arrow length? Nope! Easton suggests a 400 or 390 spine. Not a chance! I was using a 500 spine and had to use a 225 gr. tip weight to get good arrow flight...because the shaft wasn't flexing enough...or was too stiff, thus over spined.

This "spine" issue will vary with a recurve, if it doesn't have a center shot riser. I have a machined riser which is center shot, like a compound. A traditional wood riser is NOT center shot and will require more flexing of the arrow to get around the riser. Therefore, a weaker spine will be required to accomplish this flexing or a much heavier tip weight to cause the shaft to flex and break down the spine.

The problem I was having with heavier tip weights was a serious loss of trajectory and speed. Not something any archer is willing to accept for target or bowhunting. My 600 spine with a 125 gr. tip weight, flies better, is more accurate and has increased range due to flatter trajectory. I'm shooting 45# with a 30 1/2" arrow and a 29" draw length, out of a Fleetwood Knight recurve, that has a 25" machined riser, making it a 66" long bow.
I hope this info helps!

Bowhunter57
 

Milo

Tatonka guide.
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Are you bare shaft shootings these arrows? I’m shooting 400’s at 47 lbs and 31 inch arrow, 150 grain heads. Also I would get a spine checker to be sure your matching up spine placement. There can be a wide variation and you rotate the shaft.
 

giles

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jagermeister

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I'm curious as to how you are quantifying "better arrow flight." Like Milo said, are you shooting bare shafts to test this? I just don't quite understand this super flimsy arrow setup. I find it hard to believe that basically every arrow manufacturer is recommending certain spine ratings simply due to liability concerns, especially with today's technology. Modern archery equipment continues to push the limits in every aspect... So you're telling me that even though a flimsy 600 spine arrow will fly "better," no one has manufactured one that is safe enough to shoot? This simply can't be true. If it flew better, someone would surely fill this void in the market.

Now I'm not saying they don't fly better FOR YOU. In archery, a lot of times that's really all that matters... Being proficient with YOUR equipment and building confidence in it. But what I'm saying is your setup and the thinking behind it is going against everything I've ever heard or read in many years of shooting archery. I can't make myself believe that it's some trick or revelation that everyone is refusing to acknowledge just because of liability reasons.