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Ohio Division of Wildlife Chief Out.

Bigcountry40

Member
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Okay Someone correct me or tell me if I have this right or wrong on my timeline.

1. Outdoor groups wanted to raise nonresident and possibly resident fees 2. Kasich rejected this idea and called us colt members 3. Ohio House and Senate vote and pass license fee increase. 4. ODNR says they oppose it even though on paper they are in hole 5. Kasich boy- Zehringer starts cleaning house in ODNR over something I thought Kasich said he opposed to begin with!

What do I have wrong or what I am I missing?
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
38,841
260
Okay Someone correct me or tell me if I have this right or wrong on my timeline.

1. Outdoor groups wanted to raise nonresident and possibly resident fees

2. Kasich rejected this idea and called us colt members

3. Ohio House and Senate vote and pass license fee increase.

4. ODNR says they oppose it even though on paper they are in hole 5. Kasich boy- Zehringer starts cleaning house in ODNR over something I thought Kasich said he opposed to begin with!

What do I have wrong or what I am I missing?
You're pretty much correct.

1. ODOW wants a fee increase.

2. Their parent org the ODNR aka Zehringer opposed it saying the ODOW needed to make cuts and work on their budget.

3. ODOW leadership disagrees with their boss Zehringer so they spin up the hornets nest by reaching out to the sportsman's organizations and others with claims that ziringer is trying to shut down the ODOW, that he is trying to steal Sportsman's money, etc. Despite him saying this was untrue that is the story they in these organizations kept perpetuating. They basically tried to Lynch him in the court of public opinion to get their way.

4. Kasich opposed it not because of who it was but what it was. He has tried very hard over the past years to cut the overall tax rate in this state. As a result this caused budgets to be cut at departments across the state. Many of these organizations faced with a shrinking budget decided that they would increase fees to make up for it. Kasich has been staunchly against that saying fees are nothing more than a sneaky tax.

5. The end result is they managed to get a fee increase afded to the state budget, the resident fee was cut the non-resident fee was passed.

6. Next it was time to deal with the blatant insubordination of the ODOW leadership. They literally went for their bosses throat in the court of public opinion, so its is easy to see why they all got fired. They chose a hill they were willing to die on and ran up it.
 

jagermeister

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
18,063
223
Ohio
3. ODOW leadership disagrees with their boss Zehringer so they spin up the hornets nest by reaching out to the sportsman's organizations and others with claims that ziringer is trying to shut down the ODOW, that he is trying to steal Sportsman's money, etc. Despite him saying this was untrue that is the story they in these organizations kept perpetuating. They basically tried to Lynch him in the court of public opinion to get their way. .

Answer this, Joe... If the DOW leadership was doing nothing more than "spinning up the hornet's nest," why did Zehringer get rid of the two Assistant Chiefs, the Wildlife Management Section Chief, the Information & Education Section Chief, the Law Enforcement Section Chief, the head Law Enforcement Training Officer, and the Federal Aid Coordinator? What did those folks have to do with Chief Petering "spitting in his boss's face?" Oh, it's not about the money, but let's just replace the Federal Aid Coordinator, on a fuggin whim. Ha.
 

Curran

Senior Member
Supporting Member
7,971
172
Central Ohio
Politicians have no business handling DOW funds. Having said that, from my perspective, the DoW lost all credibility a long time ago.
If they are absorbed by the DNR, what will likely happen in the worst case scenario? I mean will we lose our pheasant population? Will the deer herd become so greatly reduced that a person without their own chunk of land to manage will have few deer to chase? Will public land be over hunted? Will nonresident hunters fill every parking spot in rural Ohio the first couple weeks of November? Will our waterways be polluted from agricultural run off? Will farming practices create a monoculture? Will wildlife officers not return calls and emails regarding violations?
Anyone able to explain again what a great job the DoW has done in recent years? If my perspective is incorrect, I beg for someone to clear it up.

Politicians have no business handling DOW funds. Unfortunately that's not reality, so sportsmen need to get involved in this.

Having said that, from my perspective, the DoW lost all credibility a long time ago.
If they are absorbed by the DNR, what will likely happen in the worst case scenario? Where would you like your license dollar spent? Park services or wildlife?

I mean will we lose our pheasant population? That's a function of habitat. Is modern agriculture conducive for pheasant or deer habitat? Just think about how many fencerows have been cleared in the last 15 years to increase production.

Will the deer herd become so greatly reduced that a person without their own chunk of land to manage will have few deer to chase? If more political appointees are placed into wildlife positions, rather than people who have made wildlife their career, then yes.

Will public land be over hunted? Probably not because what little we have in this state will be sold off.

Will our waterways be polluted from agricultural run off? Even more than they already are?

Will farming practices create a monoculture? We're already there.

Will wildlife officers not return calls and emails regarding violations? Yes because there will be fewer than there already are.

Anyone able to explain again what a great job the DoW has done in recent years? I can't defend that, just like I can't defend the members of this forum or any other for that matter. Every license buying resident and nonresident that hunts here bares a share of the responsibility for Ohio's wildlife resources, more specifically the resources we're hunting, fishing and trapping. If we don't like what's going on, WE need to get involved. That isn't done on forums. That isn't done by going to just one meeting and throwing your hands up when there aren't immediate changes (I'm guilty of that one). That is done by getting involved and staying involved. Emailing your elected officials is fine, but actually picking up the phone and calling them goes a hell of a lot farther. Continue to show up at meetings, making sure your elected officials know your name and your opinion. Be heard. This is a long game. And for the most part, sportsmen haven't given a shit. That's exactly what politicians are banking on. Complacency kills. The way I see it, you, me, WE all have two choices. Either get involved, or don't. If we get involved in the process we're still not guaranteed to get what we want. But if we don't get involved and just sit back and criticize then we sure as hell won't get what we want.

If my perspective is incorrect, I beg for someone to clear it up. I don't know if I cleared anything up, but just wanted to share my thoughts because I respect the hell out of you, and everybody else here on TOO, Brock. :smiley_coolpeace:
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
38,841
260
Answer this, Joe... If the DOW leadership was doing nothing more than "spinning up the hornet's nest," why did Zehringer get rid of the two Assistant Chiefs, the Wildlife Management Section Chief, the Information & Education Section Chief, the Law Enforcement Section Chief, the head Law Enforcement Training Officer, and the Federal Aid Coordinator? What did those folks have to do with Chief Petering "spitting in his boss's face?" Oh, it's not about the money, but let's just replace the Federal Aid Coordinator, on a fuggin whim. Ha.
Shit rolls down hill. Happens in corporate America. Happens in politics. Happens every election year. A new person is appointed and he comes in and changes senior leadership to the people he wants. Hell the president has something like 2000+ appointments. They will take over and make their own appointments. Meaning AKA move the people that reported to the old guy and put the new people in. A complete change of leadership is nothing new. Especially if said leadership was drastically insubordinate. He replaced the chief and anyone the chief had reporting to him.

Happens in corporate America too. A new CEO comes in and replaces the entire senior leadership chain.
 

jagermeister

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
18,063
223
Ohio
That's ridiculous Joe. There's no good reason those positions needed changed. Seems awfully suspicious why they've been replaced by folks coming from the Division that is rumored to be combined with.

You know, you really surprise me. For years, you've criticized DOW leadership for allegedly caving to political pressures regarding management decisions. Now, a Chief openly stands up for the sportsmen and bucks the politics, and all you have to say is, "oh well...shouldn't be surprised... he had it coming."
 

Milo

Tatonka guide.
8,184
157
That's ridiculous Joe. There's no good reason those positions needed changed. Seems awfully suspicious why they've been replaced by folks coming from the Division that is rumored to be combined with.

You know, you really surprise me. For years, you've criticized DOW leadership for allegedly caving to political pressures regarding management decisions. Now, a Chief openly stands up for the sportsmen and bucks the politics, and all you have to say is, "oh well...shouldn't be surprised... he had it coming."

And they don't sell the company
 

brock ratcliff

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
24,834
247
Politicians have no business handling DOW funds. Unfortunately that's not reality, so sportsmen need to get involved in this.

Having said that, from my perspective, the DoW lost all credibility a long time ago.
If they are absorbed by the DNR, what will likely happen in the worst case scenario? Where would you like your license dollar spent? Park services or wildlife?

I mean will we lose our pheasant population? That's a function of habitat. Is modern agriculture conducive for pheasant or deer habitat? Just think about how many fencerows have been cleared in the last 15 years to increase production.

Will the deer herd become so greatly reduced that a person without their own chunk of land to manage will have few deer to chase? If more political appointees are placed into wildlife positions, rather than people who have made wildlife their career, then yes.

Will public land be over hunted? Probably not because what little we have in this state will be sold off.

Will our waterways be polluted from agricultural run off? Even more than they already are?

Will farming practices create a monoculture? We're already there.

Will wildlife officers not return calls and emails regarding violations? Yes because there will be fewer than there already are.

Anyone able to explain again what a great job the DoW has done in recent years? I can't defend that, just like I can't defend the members of this forum or any other for that matter. Every license buying resident and nonresident that hunts here bares a share of the responsibility for Ohio's wildlife resources, more specifically the resources we're hunting, fishing and trapping. If we don't like what's going on, WE need to get involved. That isn't done on forums. That isn't done by going to just one meeting and throwing your hands up when there aren't immediate changes (I'm guilty of that one). That is done by getting involved and staying involved. Emailing your elected officials is fine, but actually picking up the phone and calling them goes a hell of a lot farther. Continue to show up at meetings, making sure your elected officials know your name and your opinion. Be heard. This is a long game. And for the most part, sportsmen haven't given a shit. That's exactly what politicians are banking on. Complacency kills. The way I see it, you, me, WE all have two choices. Either get involved, or don't. If we get involved in the process we're still not guaranteed to get what we want. But if we don't get involved and just sit back and criticize then we sure as hell won't get what we want.

If my perspective is incorrect, I beg for someone to clear it up. I don't know if I cleared anything up, but just wanted to share my thoughts because I respect the hell out of you, and everybody else here on TOO, Brock. :smiley_coolpeace:

You've proven my point. As I see it, aside from public land being sold off, we are already in the worst case scenario. Unless of course you like squirrel hunting.
 

jagermeister

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
18,063
223
Ohio
You've proven my point. As I see it, aside from public land being sold off, we are already in the worst case scenario. Unless of course you like squirrel hunting.
Worst case scenario? I don't think we're even close. But I think the recent shift in direction could be taking us there.
 

Milo

Tatonka guide.
8,184
157
Worst case scenario? I don't think we're even close. But I think the recent shift in direction could be taking us there.

I agree. We might be in a hole but we're are nowhere near the end. There is much more to this than deer.
 

Curran

Senior Member
Supporting Member
7,971
172
Central Ohio
You've proven my point. As I see it, aside from public land being sold off, we are already in the worst case scenario. Unless of course you like squirrel hunting.

Not at all Brock. You had several different points. The first being that politicians have no business handling DoW funds. Let's stay focused on that point because it's an important one. Well, guess what these moves are attempting to do?

I posted this in a different thread... copied & pasted from the facebook page Save the Ohio Division of Wildlife.

I've posted on this page to try and bring awareness of an effort to dismantle and centralize the ODOW into a one size fits all agency under the ODNR by Governor Kasich and the Department of Natural Resource's top brass. I'm just a small spoke in the wheel of concerned insiders trying to prevent that and our message has been met with skepticism and apathy. It has even been called fake news. If you didn't care before, you need to pay attention to what is happening right now. The agenda to destroy the Division of Wildlife financially then use that to sell the idea of dismantling self funded DOW and combining it with other agencies within the ODNR to the legislature is happening right under our noses.
I think a quick lesson on the difference of ODNR and ODOW is in order. The ODNR is a large department that includes divisions of Wildlife, Parks & Watercraft (those 2 have already been combined so right now boat registration fees we pay to fund enforcement, safety programs, etc are being shared with Parks), Forestry, Water, Minerals and Oil, and a few more. Only Watercraft and Wildlife were self funded through license/permit sales and fines. The rest were mostly general fund supported. There is a director of ODNR James Zehringer who has assistants Fred Shimp and Gary Obermiller. Each division has chiefs. Director Zehringer reports directly to the Governor. He and his top people have targeted the DOW and it's revenue we sportsmen generate in the form of user fees...license and permits....to share that money with the non revenue generating divisions within the ODNR.
Step by step the process is in motion right now.
Step 1- Modest license and permit increases for both residents and non-residents in the recently approved bi-annual budget bill would have allowed the DOW to remain self funded and continue to serve sportsmen and women in Ohio. 41 conservation groups pushed for it but were hand cuffed by a direct gag order from ODNR brass to the DOW. Do not discuss license increases or get fired. Meanwhile the director and his people lobbied hard against increases while the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance took the lead and tried to enlist sportsmen and women of Ohio to press their legislators to support it. In the end, the resident increase was removed and the budget was passed with license fee increases for non-residents only to be will be "phased in" over a 3 year period which further delays revenue. Simply put....the people behind this agenda stacked the deck, worked hard, and won. They've openly said more than once "sportsmen don't care enough to stop us". Sadly they were right. Now the door has open to raid the coffers we sportsmen pay into for licenses and permits and share it with other divisions.
Step 2- Last Friday Director Zehringer fired the highly dedicated and tireless DOW Chief Ray Petering, who like the rest of the top DOW brass is a biologist that worked his way through the ranks to become a highly effective visionary. No reason given, just terminated. Zehringer couldn't even communicate the action accurately in his memo to the ODNR staff, his voice mail to me or other Wildlife Council members, or his press release. His message was "Ray has returned to retirement". He is replaced by a former Watercraft Enforcement officer Mike Miller who will likely do exactly what he's told.
Step 3- Mike Miller replaced all but 2 top administrators in the DOW with political appointees. The biologists who worked their way through the ranks for decades to reach those positions have been replaced by political appointments. Neither the new chief or either assistant chiefs have a biology background. 2 are enforcement and one was with the Department of Aging before coming to the ODNR. All the former administrators were offered positions in....guess where???? Yep. The recently combined Division of Parks and Watercraft. Attached is a link to yesterday's press release from U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance.
http://www.sportsmensalliance.org/…/odnr-decimates-leaders…/
This reeks of a pending merger.
Step 4- Terms of 2 members of the Ohio Wildlife Council expired last January. Charlie Franks, who's not missed a single meeting in 31 years of service, and Larry Mixon who's served 16 years, have not been replaced or re-appointed. Most insiders believe this is a move to start the process of eliminating the Council. This has to be done legislatively but this group has shown it's ability to lobby.
We are now headed down the dangerous road of several other states that have allowed their fish and wildlife to be managed through politics rather than science. Ohio will soon be subject to the same disasters those states are experiencing because this group firmly believes the sportsmen and women of Ohio don't care enough to stop them. I am not giving up yet and I sincerely hope the rest of the passionate sportsmen in Ohio stop turning a blind eye to this. Get involved. Support the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance. They are fighting right now for us but they need a loud voice from all of us to send the message that we want Ohios fish and game managed by biologists in a stand alone, self funded Division of Wildlife.
Eric Hirzel
Vice Chairman, Ohio Wildlife Council
 

Milo

Tatonka guide.
8,184
157
When money from wildlife goes into the general fund it can be spent however anyone in office sees fit. This is a terrible scenario and anyihunting groups can run us right out of the game by taking all the wildlife money and spend it on place you can't hunt. I can't believe we care more about an extra packet of cigarettes than we do about our opportunity to hunt and fish
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
38,841
260
That's ridiculous Joe. There's no good reason those positions needed changed. Seems awfully suspicious why they've been replaced by folks coming from the Division that is rumored to be combined with.

You know, you really surprise me. For years, you've criticized DOW leadership for allegedly caving to political pressures regarding management decisions. Now, a Chief openly stands up for the sportsmen and bucks the politics, and all you have to say is, "oh well...shouldn't be surprised... he had it coming."

There is a very good reason for changing them, and any leader worth their salt would have done the same.. It's called blatant insubordination.. You have to trust that the people working for you will follow your leadership.. and like it or not Zehringer is the appointed leadership. Even if they don't agree with it. arguing, disagreeing, stating their case is all fine, even yelling behind closed doors. But at the end of the day you shut up and do as your told by your boss. After that it's all on your bosses head.. Employment 101... If they absolutely can not do that, then they have no business in that role and should step down. You see that all the time and it's usually called "Mutually agreed that so-in-so will be moving on." In this case they decided on another avenue. Cut their bosses throat in the court of pubic opinion. They set about to make as much noise as they could to crucify their boss in an attempt to get their way. In that regard nobody should be shocked that they were replaced. And yes they had it coming, they know full well they had it coming..

And the "openly Stands up for sportsmen" stuff is just a bunch of crap.. They were standing up for their budget. Budget shortfalls created large in part due to their loss of license and tag revinue as they decimated the sportsmen's deer population across the state. Where was this "stand up for sportsmen" battle flag when it was actually about sportsmen and not just about the ODOWs wallet? Where was this battle flag when it impacted every sportsmans time afield and not just their wallet?


I found the usage in a sentence quote relevant for this definition.

in·sub·or·di·na·tion
ˌinsəˌbôrdəˈnāSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: insubordination; plural noun: insubordinations

defiance of authority; refusal to obey orders.
"he was dismissed for insubordination"
 

jagermeister

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
18,063
223
Ohio
So you're salty that they chose to stand up now instead of when you wanted them to help your deer hunting... And now, you'd just rather see the entire thing collapse because it's what they deserve for being "insubordinate." ...Because they asked for a license fee increase, which is long overdue, which would be necessary to UTILIZE AVAILABLE FEDERAL AID DOLLARS THROUGH P-R AND D-J FUNDS.

I guess you would rather see your excise taxes on firearms and fishing equipment used for cleaning campground shitters instead of land acquisitions and putting habitat on the ground.
 

Milo

Tatonka guide.
8,184
157
I did some simple math didn't put interest into it but here the scenario
Say Ohio loses 10k hunter a year for 20 years due to killing all the deer

Deer tag 25 bucks

Grand total fee they missed out on over that 20 year span 58 million dollars. They are 240 million dollars in hole. So you cannot blame it on the deer herd being decimated ....


Let say is 45 bucks (deer tag and license) only comes up to 103 million. I will be glad to post the inconvenient math if anyone is actually interested
 
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brock ratcliff

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247
Just to clarify, I would not have complained a bit about a license fee increase. I just don't feel like the DoW has been on the sportmans team for a long time and I fail to see how any of this will change a thing. There are too many people doing too many things for this state to be a sportsman paradise. I've long ago figured that out and am aware of how blessed I am to have the access I do to land that isn't raped and therefore provides decent hunting. On a statewide level, forget it.