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"Are Crops Contributing To The Whitetail Decline?"

TwistedX

Junior Member
35
13
I would like to tell everyone a story. I have a bachelor degree in agricultural business, I work for a chemical and fertilizer application company. In my everyday work environment I encounter most of these chemicals that have been mentioned and scrutinized in the article and in some of the posts. I have no idea of the long term effects of these chemicals. I can however, speak on the immediate results of a human consuming round-up, a friend of mine mistakenly drank, yes drank, 1.5 cups of round-up. There is a long story behind it but that's for another time. In an effort to make this a short post we rushed him to the hospital and called poison control. At first we were surprised at the lax response of the emergency room and pc agent on the phone. They said, "there's no need to worry, worst case scenario he may have a clean colon as the chemical leaves his system." A second story is of a salesman who sells glyphosate, he regularly drinks a shot of it to prove its safety. To my knowledge he has had no negative results. All I'm trying to say is that plant DNA is different than the DNA of a deer or human.

That being said I hunt various areas from brown county to vinton county. In no way are the deer exactly the same but similarities do exist. I have watched deer walk past a corn feeder to munch on clover, those same deer eat the clover and moved to the soybean field. Then back to the woods for acorns and finally out of sight. On a separate occasion the deer went straight to the corn feeder and stayed for an extended period of time. All I am trying to say is that just like humans deer likely have "cravings" for different food sources depending on many variables. I'm not saying that round-up has no affect on deer numbers but I'm strongly inclined to place more blame on coyotes, habitat destruction, over-harvesting, poor management, increased traffic, more traveling (human or animal) spreading disease, and harsh weather.
 
Very interesting TwistedX!! Glad you took the time to post that up. I'd say the combinations of coyotes, EHD, over harvesting, etc. are more to blame than anything too. Too many other variables and the fact that deer have a choice on what they eat from one day to the next isn't even considered. Then again, maybe we should have a discussion on whether deer can make rational choices or not LOL!!
 

MK111

"Happy Hunting Grounds in the Sky"
Supporting Member
6,551
66
SW Ohio
Interesting post but I would say it's rather stupid on the salesman to drink the Roundup.
 

hickslawns

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
39,720
248
Ohio
Interesting post but I would say it's rather stupid on the salesman to drink the Roundup.

We were all thinking it. Thanks for saying it Frank. lmao

1 1/2 cups for the other guy? Not sure I want to hear the story.

I appreciate you sharing TwistedX. I don't have any facts to back it or support it. Sure seems like it is at least "plausible" the crops could be a contributing factor. Whether a large or small contributing factor or none at all? I don't know. Just seems plausible to me. We all get our opinions. I won't knock yours at all TwistedX. It is interesting to hear the opinion of someone with more background in this field.
 

TwistedX

Junior Member
35
13
I would have to imagine that the insecticides and fungicides have a far greater impact on palatablity than herbicides. We r required to wear PPE when handling all chemicals but we have extra PPE we are required to wear when dealing with these chemicals as the organisms they are controling, and I use that word hesitantly, Are more like deer and humans than plants are. The insecticides and fungicides are laced with irritants to protect those handling them. This being said if the application was recent then definately the animals would be more likely to move to a different food source. Also most of these chemicals are diluted by water, we have strict policy that prevents us from spraying with in a certain time frame of rain as it will dilute the chemical and render it ineffective, or wash it off the plant resulting in poor control. Like I said I'm not speaking of any long term affects nor am I claiming it has zero effect on birthing. I'm merely regurgitating information that has been force fed to me.
Another point I'd like to mention is that 100% of the seed that is genetically modified is mixed with 10% that is not modified in an effort to prevent extinction of inscect and wildlife populations. I asked a seed supplier why this was necessary since the GMO seed was not harmful and he stated that it was resistant to insects by taste, they somehow added the taste of tannin to the plants, which is why some of us dislike unsweet tea, mature dandelions in our salads etc. The 10% is for the insects to thrive on reducing the amount of yield loss and feeding the insects which are then preyed on by birds inscects small rodents and so on. Preventing another DDT incident. He also mentioned the USDA and FDA keep an eye on these things now. That was his answer I felt as if he was avoiding the question somewhat. "I would caution anyone that wants to trust the American government to take care of themselves should revisit highschool history and be reminded of the story of the American indian." Source I can't remember but it fits here. I would say the same could be said about the Odnr law makers.
 

Fullbore

Senior Member
6,439
126
South Eastern Ohio
Very interesting TwistedX!! Glad you took the time to post that up. I'd say the combinations of coyotes, EHD, over harvesting, etc. are more to blame than anything too. Too many other variables and the fact that deer have a choice on what they eat from one day to the next isn't even considered. Then again, maybe we should have a discussion on whether deer can make rational choices or not LOL!!
Ditto....... Thanks for sharing that post TwistedX
 
Interesting post but I would say it's rather stupid on the salesman to drink the Roundup.

We were all thinking it. Thanks for saying it Frank. lmao

1 1/2 cups for the other guy? Not sure I want to hear the story.

Yeah I don't know if I want to hear the story either and yes, I was thinking WTF when I read it. Those are little experiments waiting to see what happens IMO. If it kills grass and brush just by being on it I surely wouldn't be putting my lips near the shit. Common sense...........
 

Urbanhunter

Junior Member
I would have to imagine that the insecticides and fungicides have a far greater impact on palatablity than herbicides. We r required to wear PPE when handling all chemicals but we have extra PPE we are required to wear when dealing with these chemicals as the organisms they are controling, and I use that word hesitantly, Are more like deer and humans than plants are. The insecticides and fungicides are laced with irritants to protect those handling them. This being said if the application was recent then definately the animals would be more likely to move to a different food source. Also most of these chemicals are diluted by water, we have strict policy that prevents us from spraying with in a certain time frame of rain as it will dilute the chemical and render it ineffective, or wash it off the plant resulting in poor control. Like I said I'm not speaking of any long term affects nor am I claiming it has zero effect on birthing. I'm merely regurgitating information that has been force fed to me.
Another point I'd like to mention is that 100% of the seed that is genetically modified is mixed with 10% that is not modified in an effort to prevent extinction of inscect and wildlife populations. I asked a seed supplier why this was necessary since the GMO seed was not harmful and he stated that it was resistant to insects by taste, they somehow added the taste of tannin to the plants, which is why some of us dislike unsweet tea, mature dandelions in our salads etc. The 10% is for the insects to thrive on reducing the amount of yield loss and feeding the insects which are then preyed on by birds inscects small rodents and so on. Preventing another DDT incident. He also mentioned the USDA and FDA keep an eye on these things now. That was his answer I felt as if he was avoiding the question somewhat. "I would caution anyone that wants to trust the American government to take care of themselves should revisit highschool history and be reminded of the story of the American indian." Source I can't remember but it fits here. I would say the same could be said about the Odnr law makers.


You cant believe the Government on this stuff look at who is part of Monsanto's and who is part of the Gov.. They are one in the same. Even Hillary Clinton has her hands in it..
https://www.facebook.com/ThriveMove...4987926185574/998301413520884/?type=1&theater

Glyphosate, the active ingredient in Roundup herbicide, has come under intense scrutiny since a research unit of the World Health Organization reported last month it was classifying glyphosate as "probably carcinogenic to humans."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/r-re...-for-glyphosate-residues-2015-4#ixzz3Xsrmfakx

I know a guy that sprayed lawns for 2 years.. Each year by the fall season he was getting sick where in the past he never got sick.. Quit that part of the business. This was 6 years ago he may have been sick one time since he quit. I know its different but still similar.. We hammer our ground and water with mass amounts of chemicals and it cant be good.
 
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Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
38,841
260
Yep. The same government who will approve a booner pill for human consumption that can give you a heart attack, but will not admit vitamins like vitamin C has any health benefit what so ever.

The same government that will mandate schools serve milk to kids because it has vitamin D and Calcium, but will never admit either of those vitamins in supplement form has a health benefit.
 

hickslawns

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
39,720
248
Ohio
I let my spraying license lapse. I subcontract it out now. A friendly competitor of mine used to have issues with his kidneys whenever he sprayed. He gave it up as well. Some of these herbicides, pesticides, fertilizers are nasty stuff. I stand by my prior comment. I respect TwistedX's opinion, but it sure seems plenty plausible these things are effecting the animals.
 

xbowguy

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
29,629
234
Licking Co. Ohio
Holly Crap Batman. If Hillary had her hands in it, I don't trust it. That is not meant to be a funny either. I am not a fan of the chemicals at all to start with.
 

Gooseman07

Junior Member
33
24
NW Ohio
RR beans have been around a long time even when the population was surging. The round up is on the seed and is released when it rains. Once the beans get so big the RU is gone and the weeds don't grow due to lack of sun light.

Im curious what your science is behind this logic? I work with the material and it has nothing to do with rain. The chemical makeup of roundup is not affected by rain except if applied then rains immediately, it will become diluted to a point where it will not work.

I totally disagree with the logic that deer will bypass RR beans and corn for that matter. I wish I had pictures of how they destroyed my corn fields this year, over 300 yards from the closest woods.

The LD50 on roundup is so low, it's not even funny. I don't know numbers off the top of my head but it is very minimal.
 

Steelheadtracker

Junior Member
524
61
My Aunt had aspertame poisoning from drinking too much diet pop. The stuff is terrible for us. All these GMO stuff is killing us and the deer slowly.
 
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Mike

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
15,840
223
Up Nort
Im curious what your science is behind this logic? I work with the material and it has nothing to do with rain. The chemical makeup of roundup is not affected by rain except if applied then rains immediately, it will become diluted to a point where it will not work.

I totally disagree with the logic that deer will bypass RR beans and corn for that matter. I wish I had pictures of how they destroyed my corn fields this year, over 300 yards from the closest woods.

The LD50 on roundup is so low, it's not even funny. I don't know numbers off the top of my head but it is very minimal.
Just wondering if the stalks were on the ground? If they were, that's coon damage. You probably know this already, but some of the farmers I know, blame deer for all crop damage.

 

Gooseman07

Junior Member
33
24
NW Ohio
Just wondering if the stalks were on the ground? If they were, that's coon damage. You probably know this already, but some of the farmers I know, blame deer for all crop damage.

Nothing was bent off in this field. I had another field that was broke off like you mention.


 

xbowguy

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
29,629
234
Licking Co. Ohio
Just wondering if the stalks were on the ground? If they were, that's coon damage. You probably know this already, but some of the farmers I know, blame deer for all crop damage.

Been in a few fields that were blamed on deer. It was the coons and groundhogs tearing the stocks down. The one lady had 14 kill permits for damages that was more coons than deer.
 

"J"

Git Off My Lawn
Supporting Member
56,735
274
North Carolina
Been in a few fields that were blamed on deer. It was the coons and groundhogs tearing the stocks down. The one lady had 14 kill permits for damages that was more coons than deer.

That goes back on the DNR for coming out and misinterpreting the damage... Maybe hold their feet to the fire for issuing tags for damage erroneously....


 

giles

Cull buck specialist
Supporting Member
Im curious what your science is behind this logic? I work with the material and it has nothing to do with rain. The chemical makeup of roundup is not affected by rain except if applied then rains immediately, it will become diluted to a point where it will not work.

I totally disagree with the logic that deer will bypass RR beans and corn for that matter. I wish I had pictures of how they destroyed my corn fields this year, over 300 yards from the closest woods.

The LD50 on roundup is so low, it's not even funny. I don't know numbers off the top of my head but it is very minimal.

Looking for a couple of hunters? I'd like to find an over populated area to hunt again.