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"Are Crops Contributing To The Whitetail Decline?"

"J"

Git Off My Lawn
Supporting Member
56,741
274
North Carolina
I can see where in agriculture parts of the state this may be a factor but in the SE where farming isn't as prevalent what would be the reason for the decline down there besides overharvesting???

Its a theory and with that comes the pros and cons of it but the liberal bag limits have way more affect on our heard than Monsanto......
 

"J"

Git Off My Lawn
Supporting Member
56,741
274
North Carolina
We're predominantly crop/hardwood 70/30 split didn't see many deer this last season but the ones I did see the doe with with fawn.... Maybe one didn't have one with it.... After the fact I'd heard that some of the local farmers had exercised their damage permits and that may have been our issue....

I'm not saying this article doesn't have merit I'm saying there's more too the puzzle than a farmers spraying habits....

They can link issues with aquatic life with all the people who take meds and pee off what the body doesn't use and ends up affecting things in the watershed....
 

MK111

"Happy Hunting Grounds in the Sky"
Supporting Member
6,551
66
SW Ohio
Interesting read and I don't have enough knowledge to make a decision.
However one comment caught my eye and to me was out of place. 'when the farmer switched to RR beans, the deer stopped eating the beans and fed in the close up clover field'. Or close to those words.
After 2 yrs of watching the deer in my food plot I came to a different conclusion. I watch deer come out of the neighbors brush area and walk straight through a good quality horse hay field without taking a bite of hay. Every deer go straight to my clover plots to feed then may go back and do a short feed in the hay.
So I think it has nothing to do with the RR treated beans but the deer just enjoy the taste of the clover over the beans. Just place a plate full of beans and a plate full of candy in front of a young kid and watch the result. Same thing IMHO.
 

bowhunter1023

Owner/Operator
Staff member
48,879
274
Appalachia
Corn and soy are slowing killing consumers of the Western diet. Deer are ruminants, animals not designed to eat grain. I find it very plausible that an increase in fawn mortality can be directly related to the prevalence to corn and soy.
 

Redhunter1012

Senior Member
Supporting Member
every few years I have to re-up my grain grading certificate. Last year the big shot giving the class was just blasting all the RR stuff. He totally changed his diet and said he never will eat that stuff again. He is pretty well versed in all the info regarding the chemicals and overall make-up of todays grain. He says it's bad news and that early results from these long term studies they are doing are scary. In just talking to a lot of our farmers that grow RR stuff, it's 50/50. Half of them say the deer hit the RR less. The others claim deer to be eating everything in sight:smiley_chinrub:
 

Ohiosam

*Supporting Member*
11,708
191
Mahoning Co.
J nailed it, the deer in Ohio would be affected differently based on amount of crops in their area. The Wayne should Be over run deer and Vinton county would be the top county. The top whitetail states are all in the corn belt.
 
Interesting read and I don't have enough knowledge to make a decision.
However one comment caught my eye and to me was out of place. 'when the farmer switched to RR beans, the deer stopped eating the beans and fed in the close up clover field'. Or close to those words.
After 2 yrs of watching the deer in my food plot I came to a different conclusion. I watch deer come out of the neighbors brush area and walk straight through a good quality horse hay field without taking a bite of hay. Every deer go straight to my clover plots to feed then may go back and do a short feed in the hay.
So I think it has nothing to do with the RR treated beans but the deer just enjoy the taste of the clover over the beans. Just place a plate full of beans and a plate full of candy in front of a young kid and watch the result. Same thing IMHO.

I read that as well and thought the same thing.

For me I have always found it hard to believe that once Round-Up hits the dirt it becomes inert. It's a chemical, pretty dang harmful if swallowed I would imagine. So to think that it just disappears and does not get absorbed by crops, animals eating them or even the water system seems a little off to me. Think of all the problems DDT created back in the day and just in the last several years are we seeing a big resurgence of the bald eagle because of it's ban. Took a LONG time for that stuff to get out of the system.
 
1,560
0
I'm not going to say it has no effect, but I think the liberal bag limits have had a much greater impact. RR beans have been around a long time even when the population was surging. The round up is on the seed and is released when it rains. Once the beans get so big the RU is gone and the weeds don't grow due to lack of sun light. IMO I don't think it really effects them, I'm seeing a lot of healthy fawns every year and we have been planting RR beans for a long time.
 
Good points LH75! I do agree that the majority of the problem most are seeing is the result of liberal bag limits. Even up til this year you always heard people say just shoot a doe every time you are out for venison, as if there were an endless supply.
 

MK111

"Happy Hunting Grounds in the Sky"
Supporting Member
6,551
66
SW Ohio
every few years I have to re-up my grain grading certificate. Last year the big shot giving the class was just blasting all the RR stuff. He totally changed his diet and said he never will eat that stuff again. He is pretty well versed in all the info regarding the chemicals and overall make-up of todays grain. He says it's bad news and that early results from these long term studies they are doing are scary. In just talking to a lot of our farmers that grow RR stuff, it's 50/50. Half of them say the deer hit the RR less. The others claim deer to be eating everything in sight:smiley_chinrub:

Everything can be taken too far. I know people who won't eat this or that, and won't drink this or that. Diet pop is one on the hit list but you probably would have to drink 10,000 cans per day for a long period of time to hurt you. I have a SIL who thinks the additives in powdered coffee creamer are the same is in clothes soap. Reminds me every time she sees me drink it.
Some people are effected differently than others. I don't take in anything knowly that will hurt me and I don't loose any sleep over it.
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
38,841
260
An interesting article indeed.

For me I know there are two truths.
1. Farmers in America are basically allowed to get away with anything that they wish environmental impact be damned.

2. The FDA is never going to go against the farm lobby. And before anyone puts much stock in the FDA; remember these are the same jokers who will NOT admit that vitamin C, D, and E supplements have a health benefit. But will still insist that drinking milk is some magical juice that provides super vitamins. And despite countless scientific studies to the contrary they still require schools to purchase it for children.

With that being out of the way. It is been shown time and time again the GMO corn is vastly inferior to non GMO when comparing nutritional values.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1426715806.734320.jpg

In the article the gentleman spoke of a story where a friend planted GMO beans and noticed a drastic reduction in whitetail consumption and increased consumption of other browse. They go on to speculate that it could be due to the presence of roundup. It is more likely however it is due to the drastically reduced nutritional value of GMOs.

I don't care what anyone says. You cannot take an organism, genetically modify it to be immune to a poison, inundate this organism with said poison, then claimed that it is 100% safe to eat by other organisms not genetically modified to be immune to said poison. Nature doesn't work that way. That's like saying that since a honey badger has an immunity to cobra venom that cobra venom is safe for human consumption. No. Just as the corn is genetically modified to be immune to the poison, the honey badger is genetically modified to be immune to the cobra poison. That does not mean that a honey badger marinated in cobra venom is harmless to eat.

One thing is for sure however. Modern agricultural practices, especially the use of herbicides and pesticides has all but eradicated the quail and pheasant populations. It's polluted streams to the point that some native fish species are all but gone. Created massive dead zones spanning thousands of square miles in the gulf and resulted costal erosion across the north gulf. This massive environmental impact is real, undeniable, and directly linked to modern farming practices and chemicals. Yet is is allowed to continue without an ounce of impunity or responsibility. So forgive me if I seem skeptical when big AG tells me a known poison of franken crop is safe to consume.
 

giles

Cull buck specialist
Supporting Member
I think it's a buildup of many many things. Bag limits with the biggest effect. Farmers have a hand in this also with the chemicals used and habitats being depleted. (Can't remember the last time I hunted a fence row, I think they went extinct.)

The killem all attitude is quickly becoming a thing of the past.
 

jagermeister

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
18,060
223
Ohio
Interesting article for sure. I believe it is definitely plausible, but not the only factor involved. There are many variables at play. What's interesting to me is that even though the deer population has been declining for several years, the average antler beam diameter of yearling bucks and fawn pregnancy rates have steadily declined. Both related heavily to nutrition, one would think a declining population would result in these trends running back the other way... or at least leveling out. IMO the obvious culprit is decreasing habitat quality and nutrition. In rural Ohio one could possibly attribute RR crops to the decline in herd health. In SE Ohio, although fewer crops, the maturing timber of the state and national forests is not helping our deer herd either. Or many other critters for that matter. It's a very complex system. Like I said, I don't think the widespread use of GMOs is the only thing to blame... But I think blowing it off and discounting its impact completely is pretty foolish.