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ODNR Ready for hunter's complaints

Jackalope

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Same old stuff. Been trying to tell people for years Tonk was a snake in the grass.

As for books. According to the BBC books I have hanging on my wall the number 9 long bow killed buck in the state for 2011. Number 16 if you add in crossbows. And number 29 in the state for all weapons total. It'll never see the print of the BBC books.
 

hickslawns

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Supporting Member
39,766
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Ohio
That the one you bought at the swap meet Joe? Then posed next to him for pictures? Ol' Bankshot? Banksy? Something like that. :smiley_crocodile:
 

yotehunter

Member
1,527
36
spencerville oh
Here is my question. Whatever happin to the carrying capacity of a area. Since when do farmers or insurance companies start setting these carrying capacity limits. This state has never seen its true potential capacity in the25 years I've hunted. Just because there are more cars on the road doesn't mean we have over stepped the areas capacity or that the farmers have gotten so greedy the want every kernel of corn in a field so we are over our carrying capacity. The men and women's salaries that are paid buy the sportsmen is a joke if the the insurance companies and farm bureau is setting these capacities what the fugg we need DNR for. Odnr has dropped the ball and they need too get their hands out of these pockets and back into the sportsmen were they belong.
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
38,859
260
Here is my question. Whatever happin to the carrying capacity of a area. Since when do farmers or insurance companies start setting these carrying capacity limits. This state has never seen its true potential capacity in the25 years I've hunted. Just because there are more cars on the road doesn't mean we have over stepped the areas capacity or that the farmers have gotten so greedy the want every kernel of corn in a field so we are over our carrying capacity. The men and women's salaries that are paid buy the sportsmen is a joke if the the insurance companies and farm bureau is setting these capacities what the fugg we need DNR for. Odnr has dropped the ball and they need too get their hands out of these pockets and back into the sportsmen were they belong.

It's not about farmers. They're just the patsy. They're playing them against us. This "farmer attitude" he keeps talking about is a survey they did 20 years ago where farmers said they would like to see slightly fewer deer. They haven't surveyed them since. The DNR claims they're going to do another farmer survey, but all this damage was done based off the old one. The reality is they need to claim they did it for farmers AND insurance companies. Just saying they did it for insurance companies alone would make them look bad. So they need to throw the poor old farmer in there.

The fact is it's like Brock and I've been telling you guys for years. We are getting screwed. The problem now is the population is so low there's not a shitload we can do about it. Even if we lowered tags etc. Really the only thing that we can hope for is like Tonk told me, they lower the deer population so low that people quit hunting and as a result the population increases.
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
38,859
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At the end of the day the major problem is these so called hunters organizations not having the balls to do what needs to be done and stand up to the DNR for hunters. But that would mean they piss of their DNR buddies and contacts. These so called hunter associations need to rub elbows with the DNR to keep their ties. The problem is farmers have someone representing their interest of the DNR. Insurance purchasers have someone representing their interest of the DNR. And hunters have a bunch of organizations who claim they're fighting the anti hunters but refused to say one cross word about their buddies at the DNR. What they did manage to do was stand up yet another organization That claims to be about hunters rights yet hasn't done a dang thing except spam my inbox with surveys for the past year. But hey it's served their purpose. It allows these organizations to pass the buck and say someone else is handling it. This way they can keep rubbing elbows at the DNR and pass the buck to some other organization that was never intended to have any teeth.
 

Gern186

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
10,187
201
NW Ohio Tundra
It's not about farmers. They're just the patsy. They're playing them against us. This "farmer attitude" he keeps talking about is a survey they did 20 years ago where farmers said they would like to see slightly fewer deer. They haven't surveyed them since. The DNR claims they're going to do another farmer survey, but all this damage was done based off the old one. The reality is they need to claim they did it for farmers AND insurance companies. Just saying they did it for insurance companies alone would make them look bad. So they need to throw the poor old farmer in there.

The fact is it's like Brock and I've been telling you guys for years. We are getting screwed. The problem now is the population is so low there's not a shitload we can do about it. Even if we lowered tags etc. Really the only thing that we can hope for is like Tonk told me, they lower the deer population so low that people quit hunting and as a result the population increases.




This really came out of Tonks mouth?

People aren't going to stop hunting. Newsflash. Maybe actually having to work a little harder to kill a deer would be a good thing for most people who want to kill one on the first hour of the season.

This pisses me off. I dont know who to be pissed at here....the DNR or hunters that are spoiled enough to expect deer hunting to be easy.

Deer hunting is a recreational activity...it's for FUN....not life or death. I started hunting in the late 80' s and I guarantee the deer hunting then wasn't half as good as it has been in the last 5 years or even today.
 
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Milo

Tatonka guide.
8,184
157
[/B]


This really came out of Tonks mouth?

People aren't going to stop hunting. Newsflash. Maybe actually having to work a little harder to kill a deer would be a good thing for most people who want to kill one on the first hour of the season.

This pisses me off. I dont know who to be pissed at here....the DNR or hunters that are spoiled enough to expect deer hunting to be easy.

Deer hunting is a recreational activity...it's for FUN....not life or death. I started hunting in the late 80' s and I guarantee the deer hunting then wasn't half as good as it has been in the last 5 years or even today.

what does this mean Gern? Where i live and hunt its impossible to "Work harder" without ignoring my duty's as a father/husband or trespassing because the acreage is very small. Neither of the options are really options to me.
 

Gern186

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10,187
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NW Ohio Tundra
It means I don't understand the bitching and complaining about how poor deer hunting is and has been in Ohio...I have dutys as a single father...just like you and everyone else. Opportunities are out there for everyone. If anything I think there are too many guys hunting and wish there were less of them. Do you take your kids with you when you go hunting? How old are your kids?

My kids have been going with me since they were 5 years old....whether they were sitting in a blind with me while I was hunting, or whether they were shooting a crossbow...I took them with me most of the time and put their opportunities to kill a deer ahead of mine. And they have been very successful. Put in the time and you will be rewarded.
 

Jackalope

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It means I don't understand the bitching and complaining about how poor deer hunting is and has been in Ohio...I have dutys as a single father...just like you and everyone else. Opportunities are out there for everyone. If anything I think there are too many guys hunting and wish there were less of them. Do you take your kids with you when you go hunting? How old are your kids?

My kids have been going with me since they were 5 years old....whether they were sitting in a blind with me while I was hunting, or whether they were shooting a crossbow...I took them with me most of the time and put their opportunities to kill a deer ahead of mine. And they have been very successful. Put in the time and you will be rewarded.

Nobody expects it to be easy. But you're argument is like saying. Farmers and insurance companies were complaining that they pay too much. So we're going to cut your pay in half at the hospital. Don't worry. Just put in double the hours. You can make it up. Work harder and you'll have the same take home pay.
 

Milo

Tatonka guide.
8,184
157
It means I don't understand the bitching and complaining about how poor deer hunting is and has been in Ohio...I have dutys as a single father...just like you and everyone else. Opportunities are out there for everyone. If anything I think there are too many guys hunting and wish there were less of them. Do you take your kids with you when you go hunting? How old are your kids?

My kids have been going with me since they were 5 years old....whether they were sitting in a blind with me while I was hunting, or whether they were shooting a crossbow...I took them with me most of the time and put their opportunities to kill a deer ahead of mine. And they have been very successful. Put in the time and you will be rewarded.
I'm sorry but im not sure why your bringing the kids into it. My kids are 9 and 5. they will go with me when i feel they are ready if your curious about that. So i put in the time this year more than the past 3 years and i ended up not seeing a deer on the hoof over 110. the last 3 years i had great opportunities at big deer, but my doe sighting are off over 50% from just 2 years ago. I'm pretty sure your hunter pressure is way less than mine here so maybe that's the reason I don't completely understand your "working harder" comment. There are still 24 hours in the day here and small property lines.
 

Gern186

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NW Ohio Tundra
Come on Joe...that's not comparing the same thing. Some guys pass up opportunities on multiple deer waiting on just the right one to shoot....look at your season. My season was an exception to the rule...hunted 1 time for about an hour and a half and kill a big one. Last year I hunted a couple hundred hours before i punched a tag....still had opportunities and I really enjoyed the pursuit...didn't care if it took me another 100 hours to kill one....late season last year was phenomenal. What im saying is you can't tell me its harder to kill a deer in a county that kills 2 or 3 thousand deer than it is in a county that only kills 1,000
 

Gern186

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NW Ohio Tundra
I'm sorry but im not sure why your bringing the kids into it. My kids are 9 and 5. they will go with me when i feel they are ready if your curious about that. So i put in the time this year more than the past 3 years and i ended up not seeing a deer on the hoof over 110. the last 3 years i had great opportunities at big deer, but my doe sighting are off over 50% from just 2 years ago. I'm pretty sure your hunter pressure is way less than mine here so maybe that's the reason I don't completely understand your "working harder" comment. There are still 24 hours in the day here and small property lines.

Only reason I mentioned the kids is because you said you had fatherly duties. Almost every guy hunting has fatherly duties.

Oh..so now this discussion is about trophy deer? I thought it was about deer in general....so you had opportunities to kill deer...just not "trophy" deer....gotcha.

You want to see small property lines and even smaller woodlots...google Paulding county ohio.
 
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brock ratcliff

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Chad - you apparently aren't in an area that has felt the reduction just yet. I remember your pictures of yarding deer last winter... you will NOT find that sort of thing here, and would not have seen herds like that for at least the last 10 years. You are up around Van Wert aren't you? If I remember correctly, your area just raised the bag limit 3 or 4 years ago, I think. We had 4 tags for years, until our primary gun season harvest bottomed out at 83 deer! Mike Tonkovich told Mrex to pass along to me that he would be reducing our bag limit the next year. He sent that message only a couple of days after those gun season numbers came out. I think we have every reason to whine! I first hunted Fayette Co in 1994, the year that I married KR and moved over here. There were deer in every woodlot...but there aren't many woodlots. Today, I could walk through a half dozen woodlots before I see a deer! The only reason I see the deer I do is because one of my landowners has kicked EVERYONE but me off the properties. They are rebounding on that ground, but surrounding properties are desolate. I don't think people complaining about low deer numbers is unfounded. When I first started whining, the rest of the state thought I was nuts... not the case today. If you choose to believe the rest of the hunters that are now complaining are just too lazy, or want it too easy, or don't like to get cold, or don't know how to hunt... you are naïve.
 

Milo

Tatonka guide.
8,184
157
Oh..so now this discussion is about trophy deer? I thought it was about deer in general....so you had opportunities to kill deer...just not "trophy" deer....gotcha.
Um well yes i did. Doe fawns...not hardly worth 24 the dollar tag. for a top 10 whitetail state in the US, for people who put in "the time" should they not see at least a 125 on the hoof in daylight? even if its 500 yards away? this is probably the first year since in started hunting in 1985 that i didn't pass on deer when given the shot. In pasted years i passed on tons of deer during the season.
 

brock ratcliff

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Come on Joe...that's not comparing the same thing. Some guys pass up opportunities on multiple deer waiting on just the right one to shoot....look at your season. My season was an exception to the rule...hunted 1 time for about an hour and a half and kill a big one. Last year I hunted a couple hundred hours before i punched a tag....still had opportunities and I really enjoyed the pursuit...didn't care if it took me another 100 hours to kill one....late season last year was phenomenal. What im saying is you can't tell me its harder to kill a deer in a county that kills 2 or 3 thousand deer than it is in a county that only kills 1,000


Our highest kill was 600, and that was in 1995... NW Ohio does not own the monopoly on small patches of cover or flat land...
 

brock ratcliff

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Milo, seems to me just two or three years ago you were telling me you still had plenty of deer... I must not have been putting in the effort you were back then. :)
 

Gern186

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NW Ohio Tundra
Chad - you apparently aren't in an area that has felt the reduction just yet. I remember your pictures of yarding deer last winter... you will NOT find that sort of thing here, and would not have seen herds like that for at least the last 10 years. You are up around Van Wert aren't you? If I remember correctly, your area just raised the bag limit 3 or 4 years ago, I think. We had 4 tags for years, until our primary gun season harvest bottomed out at 83 deer! Mike Tonkovich told Mrex to pass along to me that he would be reducing our bag limit the next year. He sent that message only a couple of days after those gun season numbers came out. I think we have every reason to whine! I first hunted Fayette Co in 1994, the year that I married KR and moved over here. There were deer in every woodlot...but there aren't many woodlots. Today, I could walk through a half dozen woodlots before I see a deer! The only reason I see the deer I do is because one of my landowners has kicked EVERYONE but me off the properties. They are rebounding on that ground, but surrounding properties are desolate. I don't think people complaining about low deer numbers is unfounded. When I first started whining, the rest of the state thought I was nuts... not the case today. If you choose to believe the rest of the hunters that are now complaining are just too lazy, or want it too easy, or don't like to get cold, or don't know how to hunt... you are naïve.


Brock...our county has had a 4 deer limit for several years now...its complete bullshit..should have never been more than 2 in my opinion. The area around my place just happened to be where a lot of deer yarded up last winter..not because there are a shitload of deer here....they just concentrated right here for a couple months. Im not saying hunters are lazy or any of that...im saying that there are plenty of opportunities in this state today...especially for good deer...sure you might have to do the extra legwork and put some more time in...but for cripes sake.....look at the bucks that have been knocked down just by guys on this very site! And for those that haven't tagged out...look at what they are hunting for....trail cam pics of bucks that are there for the taking.
 

Gern186

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NW Ohio Tundra
Um well yes i did. Doe fawns...not hardly worth 24 the dollar tag. for a top 10 whitetail state in the US, for people who put in "the time" should they not see at least a 125 on the hoof in daylight? even if its 500 yards away? this is probably the first year since in started hunting in 1985 that i didn't pass on deer when given the shot. In pasted years i passed on tons of deer during the season.


So you had one bad season since 85...that's pretty darn good if you ask me.
 

Milo

Tatonka guide.
8,184
157
Milo, seems to me just two or three years ago you were telling me you still had plenty of deer... I must not have been putting in the effort you were back then. :)

you have come out of your slack jaw state in fine order brock...Yes we had a great plenty of deer a few years ago. then 2 summers ago i was disturbed but the fact that i saw VERY minimal fawns while out summer scouting. The next year was not much better. This year we have been fortunate. I have seen a huge upswing in fawns and i am encouraged but still concerned.
 

brock ratcliff

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True...to some extent. Can't help but imagine the trailcam pics we could have had 15 years ago!

You cannot win this debate Chad. If your area had been cleaned out as mine has, and apparently a lot of other's, someone saying there is just a lack of effort is insulting. I know what we HAD, and I know what we HAVE. I know I hunt harder now (have more time) than ever, and I know what I've heard come out of Mike Tonkovich's mouth. I know I have ZERO confidence in the ODOW's management plan, so at least on the Fayette properties, I've got my own...and the DOW has no input on that piece of ground anymore.