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Deer Harvest Trend

bluedog

Junior Member
I don't know if this would prove anything but I'm curious about something. Can we see somewhere how many tags were purchased VS filled? The only stats I ever remember seeing are the number of deer checked in and then the DNR seems to say it's because of less participation etc. I'd really like to know how many UNFILLED tags there are per year and would be especially interested in how many were purchased right before gun season started.

The 2013-2014 Ohio Deer Summary may answer some of your questions.

Brock, I mentioned about the state having a gun season that was first two days buck/doe followed by 4 days only of buck only in 1998. I don't think it was in all counties but I thought I read it was in more than half the counties. I might be able to find it again, but thought you might know. If that followed after the 2 week gun season, I would qualify that as pulling back on the reins. I will agree that there has not been any semblance of pulling back in recent years. However, even though a slight decrease in bag limits should not have much of an effect, I believe there is a small but possibly significant psychological effect. The DOW is starting to send the message out to hunters that the herd is shrinking. Not all will get it or act on it, but some will. There is no way to measure this effect but I believe it to be real.

Now for something to make you guys smile. Well hopefull anyway because seems like you all need to smile about something related to deer hunting. Your message is slowly getting through. To me at least. About 3ish years ago when the first grumblings were becoming well known, I was nowhere near on board with the deer herd being down. I thought it all a bunch of doo doo. But I've been listening and watching and really trying to learn. And while my own hunting grounds is just fine in the deer population aspect, I've come to realize that is not the case all over. I am ready to step up to the plate and help my fellow hunters by voicing my concerns to the DOW. I have also become much more conservative in how many deer come off my farm. I do have a constant struggle though. As a hunter, I would love to see 20 deer out munching in the field behind the house every evening. As a farmer (and we do actively farm), I would love to see exactly 2 deer and no more living in our field. LOL! But the past couple years I have told the other hunters that I give permission to hunt the farm, how many does are allowed to be taken. I can see the effect that taking too many does has on other places in the state and although my farm is really not big enough to totally control this, limiting doe harvest here can surely help stabilize the herd here as best as I can. We don't do damage permits because I loathe the idea of shooting does in the summer but if need be we can always take more during the season. YOUR MESSAGE IS STARTING TO GET THROUGH. Take that as a positive. PLEASE! Because it is.

Now, what I'm not onboard with is that DOW is the antiChrist. Do I agree with everything they have done? No. But they are the group that I want managing wildlife. Are they political? yes. But within the ranks are biologists that I have no doubt are standing up for what is right. Oh sure, they can't always do it publicly or jeopardize their own jobs, but I believe they are there in the background tempering the political machine. I cannot come up with one scenario where I would trust an outside group to be less political. Politics will be involved. Forever. And ever. Amen. Reality. (See Wisconsin)

Now on to some of the other issues at hand:
1. Where does complaining about something become synonymous with not liking something, at least something as a whole. I complain about my family on occasion and I love them. So I know some of you won't be happy, but I'm not going anywhere unless I get kicked out.

2. "Clint" is not my friend. I don't know him. Never met him. Someone made a comment about this forum being open to dissenting views and I made the counterpoint that while yes indeed people were free to comment how they wish, there was not a very welcoming atmosphere for new people that held those viewpoints. It's one thing to bash on someone that has been around for a bit (me) and another thing to ridicule someone who has just made their first post. A mature debate does not include name calling and ridicule. It just doesn't. You would have flunked debate class in high school.

3. Why do I stay here? Because someone needs to stick around and post the unpopular side of some issues.

4. And until the time I can post direct links to my hunting blog, yes you do censor so don't say that you don't. I'm sorry you have your panties all in a wad about OS. Sometimes you just need to understand that some of us like it here and we like it there also. Two different atmospheres and something to be gained from each place. I am not going to start a new blog. Everything is over there and it is going to stay over there. I can deal with the censorship, but just don't say that you don't do it. That is kind of like the DOW telling everyone that the deer herd is not down. :) :) :)

5. Like it or not, hard core deer hunters have a bad reputation with the average hunter that likes to do a little of this and a little of that and maybe a little bit or no deer hunting. Deer hunters are responsible for land being leased. Deer hunters are only trophy hunters and only care about shooting a big buck. Deer hunters won't let other hunters on their land because it is all about the deer. Deer hunters put out feeders that help boost the raccoon population that feed on ground nesting birds. I hear it over and over again. You guys need the waterfowlers and the small gamers and the upland bird hunters on your side if you are going to make headway against the DOW and right now that is a problem. Maybe you don't realize it, but it is. So yeah, this is a forum that can be run whichever way the owners of the forum wish to run it, but the vulgar language and locker room banter are not attractive and do not win you any points. You may not care and you may not listen or hear what I am saying, but you should.

Carry on.
 

hickslawns

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
39,721
248
Ohio
Now on to some of the other issues at hand:
1. Where does complaining about something become synonymous with not liking something, at least something as a whole. I complain about my family on occasion and I love them. So I know some of you won't be happy, but I'm not going anywhere unless I get kicked out.

2. "Clint" is not my friend. I don't know him. Never met him. Someone made a comment about this forum being open to dissenting views and I made the counterpoint that while yes indeed people were free to comment how they wish, there was not a very welcoming atmosphere for new people that held those viewpoints. It's one thing to bash on someone that has been around for a bit (me) and another thing to ridicule someone who has just made their first post. A mature debate does not include name calling and ridicule. It just doesn't. You would have flunked debate class in high school.

3. Why do I stay here? Because someone needs to stick around and post the unpopular side of some issues.

4. And until the time I can post direct links to my hunting blog, yes you do censor so don't say that you don't. I'm sorry you have your panties all in a wad about OS. Sometimes you just need to understand that some of us like it here and we like it there also. Two different atmospheres and something to be gained from each place. I am not going to start a new blog. Everything is over there and it is going to stay over there. I can deal with the censorship, but just don't say that you don't do it. That is kind of like the DOW telling everyone that the deer herd is not down. :) :) :)

You are a vet? Correct? Say you have a customer who uses your veterinary clinic AND your competitor's. They request they post your blog which is a direct link off your competitor's website. WHY in the world would you advertise for your competition on your website? This is of course, assuming you have had prior issues with the competition. I am self employed as well. I have "competitors" which I get along with well. I refer people to them at times if it is not a good fit for our business. They do the same for us. I have other competitors who are complete imbeciles. They do not take care of their customers. They are not someone I am comfortable referring perspective customers to. I do not want my business name associated with theirs. Does it make more sense when posted this way? It is not censorship. You have the ability to post whatever you want over here. You simply cannot (from what I am gathering here) link blog posts from the competitor's web page on TOO. I don't see that as censorship. You have the ability and right to post to blog posts here. You are simply choosing not to unless you can promote OS at the same time. I don't blame the owners for not wanting to be associated with them. They stand for different things.
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
38,841
260
4. And until the time I can post direct links to my hunting blog, yes you do censor so don't say that you don't. I'm sorry you have your panties all in a wad about OS. Sometimes you just need to understand that some of us like it here and we like it there also. Two different atmospheres and something to be gained from each place. I am not going to start a new blog. Everything is over there and it is going to stay over there. I can deal with the censorship, but just don't say that you don't do it. That is kind of like the DOW telling everyone that the deer herd is not down. :) :) :)


Not allowing you to post a link to a competitors website whom we've had considerable issues with, and the whole reason this site was started, is not censorship in the manner that we were speaking. We have contributing members here with links to their blog, site, website etc. And you would be welcome to post a link to yours if not for the site you chose to post it on. It's also been offered that you're welcome to post it here or post it elsewhere and we'll link to it providing it contains no advertisements for OS. I am under no obligation to provide that site with free advertising from ours especially given our history and my utter disagreance with how that place is ran.

The censorship that is rampant on OS is moderators and admin deleting or banning individuals for their expressed points. Not allowing you to post a link to what used to be our competition whom we disagree with is not censorship. We must be doing something right and providing members with a place the love because TOO consistently puts up 50-75% more posts than that site week after week. In the past two years alone TOO has put up 69,411 more posts than OS over the same period. Really we don't even speak of that place over here because nobody cares. If you want to visit it fine. It's a free internet. But we're not changing what we've been doing and is obviously working. If you don't agree then kick rocks darling, no skin off back.

The actual intent of this thread was deer numbers, if you want to continue discussing website politics feel free to PM me.
 

brock ratcliff

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
24,834
247
Bluedog - I do not remember any season when we were allowed bucks only for a portion of it. It has not happened in southern Ohio that I'm aware of. I do remember a time when we had to apply for doe permits for gun season. I think when I started hunting, a deer of either sex was permitted with archery gear. Again, based solely on my memory.
 

Lundy

Member
1,307
127
Bluedog - I do not remember any season when we were allowed bucks only for a portion of it. It has not happened in southern Ohio that I'm aware of. I do remember a time when we had to apply for doe permits for gun season. I think when I started hunting, a deer of either sex was permitted with archery gear. Again, based solely on my memory.

There were some counties in Northern Ohio I believe that while the rest of the southern zones had buck or does legal for the entire season some of the Northern only zones had does legal the first couple of days of the season and then buck only the remaining days. I never hunted the North zones so I don't remember the exact details but I do remember the basics of the of what I though was very different than the seasons in the southern zones
 

reo

Junior Member
484
68
N.E. Ohio
Back in the 80's extreme NE Ohio, Ashtabula, Trumble counties and maybe some others was buck or doe on opening day of gun season and buck only for the remainder.
 

brock ratcliff

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
24,834
247
There were some counties in Northern Ohio I believe that while the rest of the southern zones had buck or does legal for the entire season some of the Northern only zones had does legal the first couple of days of the season and then buck only the remaining days. I never hunted the North zones so I don't remember the exact details but I do remember the basics of the of what I though was very different than the seasons in the southern zones

If the DOW initiated a seasonal regulation similar to this in my area for a season or two, I'd start to believe they were paying attention. That is the sort of thing they USED to do, and have not since they have gone on this killing spree. I miss the old ODOW, I had a lot more faith in them then!
 

Milo

Tatonka guide.
8,184
157
Bluedog - I do not remember any season when we were allowed bucks only for a portion of it. It has not happened in southern Ohio that I'm aware of. I do remember a time when we had to apply for doe permits for gun season. I think when I started hunting, a deer of either sex was permitted with archery gear. Again, based solely on my memory.

There used to be an early muzzleloader season at a few state lands back in the day. That was only a weekend thing.
 

RedCloud

Super Moderator
Super Mod
17,381
193
North Central Ohio
Bluedog - I do not remember any season when we were allowed bucks only for a portion of it. It has not happened in southern Ohio that I'm aware of. I do remember a time when we had to apply for doe permits for gun season. I think when I started hunting, a deer of either sex was permitted with archery gear. Again, based solely on my memory.

Gun season of 98' we had a split of buck only and doe only days but it was only certain counties. That was the first deer season I hunted after my father passed away is the only reason I can remember it.
 
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jagermeister

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
18,060
223
Ohio
There were some counties in Northern Ohio I believe that while the rest of the southern zones had buck or does legal for the entire season some of the Northern only zones had does legal the first couple of days of the season and then buck only the remaining days. I never hunted the North zones so I don't remember the exact details but I do remember the basics of the of what I though was very different than the seasons in the southern zones
Yep. I grew up in Sandusky County and I remember a gun season where we could only shoot does the first couple days. I believe it was indeed 1998. It was the year I shot my first deer, a 6-point, on a Wednesday which was the first buck-only day of the week. At least I think... My memory is total shit and that was a long time ago.
 

antiqucycle

Junior Member
506
36
East Ohio
The late 60's,70's and early 80's in NE Ohio had either sex on opening day monday, Then bucks only thru friday , which at some point opened to 6 days.I think it was around 1978 when you had to apply for a doe permit for Columbiana County and further south. the permit was good for only one county. That lasted about 4 years.

The bottom though, no one knows how many deer in Ohio, how many get slammed by autos and trucks each year which has no relation to insurance claims. Or how many are actually killed by hunters. The lack of state issued tags pre telecheck, the lack of metal tags has made it impossible to guess the true number of deer kills and Tonkovich is to blame.

Game wardens ride around every day, maybe they should be counting roadkills to see if those numbers exceed what telecheck numbers.
 

RedCloud

Super Moderator
Super Mod
17,381
193
North Central Ohio
The two week gun season was in 1996, Mike Tonkovich's first year at the helm. It was a huge disappointment for the DOW. During the second week (6 days), the percentage of kill was only around 6%. I'm basing this solely on memory, but I believe it to be accurate.

You might be pretty close with the 6% for the entire 2nd week gun season. I think Tonk said on the radio show the other day the biggest day of that 2nd week was Saturday and that accounted for 2% of the total.
 

bluedog

Junior Member
You are a vet? Correct? Say you have a customer who uses your veterinary clinic AND your competitor's. They request they post your blog which is a direct link off your competitor's website. WHY in the world would you advertise for your competition on your website? This is of course, assuming you have had prior issues with the competition. I am self employed as well. I have "competitors" which I get along with well. I refer people to them at times if it is not a good fit for our business. They do the same for us. I have other competitors who are complete imbeciles. They do not take care of their customers. They are not someone I am comfortable referring perspective customers to. I do not want my business name associated with theirs. Does it make more sense when posted this way? It is not censorship. You have the ability to post whatever you want over here. You simply cannot (from what I am gathering here) link blog posts from the competitor's web page on TOO. I don't see that as censorship. You have the ability and right to post to blog posts here. You are simply choosing not to unless you can promote OS at the same time. I don't blame the owners for not wanting to be associated with them. They stand for different things.

110% apples and oranges. The internet has always been about free exchange of ideas. I'll send you a PM to explain further.
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
38,841
260
110% apples and oranges. The internet has always been about free exchange of ideas. I'll send you a PM to explain further.

I think you may be confused. "free exchange of ideas" means everyone is free to make a website and has the ability to navigate to those sites unrestricted. The internet has never been about advertising for a business you disagree with. Don't believe me. Hop on over to Googles forums and start posting links to Bing or Yahoo.

Funny story about making your own website though. See, once upon a time before TOO many of us were very active members over there, I personally had over 6,900 posts. The owner and I had a disagreement about censorship, deleting posts, and the obnoxious number of ads eye raping me everyday. Exactly what still happens there today it appears. The argument escalated and he quipped "If you think you know better than me, go run your own forum". Four years ago Jesse and I did just that and started TOO. Despite that site having an 8 year head start, within the first year our members made TOO the most active hunting forum in Ohio with almost double the content posted per week as the other site. In 4 short years our archived posted content is now 51% of what that other sites has done in 12 years. I've had to upgrade servers three times in that 4 years to keep up with growth, On average TOO is growing 40% year over year. We must be doing something right wouldn't you say. Until now you're really the only one who has decided to take exception, all because you can't post a link to your blog on his forum. As I said earlier. You have a choice and the internet is a free place. Head on back over and blog away. As for me, my patience is running a little thin with this discussion as I'm TOO busy "knowing better and running our own forum".
 

Lundy

Member
1,307
127
The owner and I had a disagreement about censorship.

The irony of it all:D

Bluedog, Your assertion, "The internet has always been about free exchange of ideas" is absolutely not factual. The Internet has always been about free highways to allow us to navigate and visit individual private locations. Once you leave the main highway and enter a private location the definition of free access, free speech, free exchange of ideas, conduct, is as defined only by the owners of the private location . The "free exchange of ideas" is not universal in it's application from site to site, nor should it ever be, The owners of the private location get to determine what goes on in their own house. No grey areas, very black and white.

I'm an old time very conservative white guy, there are things on this site that make me cringe from time to time, but I know I am a guest here and either accept it or move on down the Internet highway.

I'm done, I won't sidetrack this thread with any more posts about this.
 

MK111

"Happy Hunting Grounds in the Sky"
Supporting Member
6,551
66
SW Ohio
After reading all the discussions about OS forum I had to find out. I've never been there so had to do a Google search just to find out what it was. LOL
I attempted to register but Geez all the censors requirements stopped me cold. I just left another left another long time gun forum because of all the censor requirements.
Plain and simple if you don't like what's posted or how it's posted just leave. Free choice.
I did leave the OS site without registering because I can't in good faith live by those censor rules.

Oh requirement #9 is no free advertising permitted. And isn't that what Bluedog is complaining about a link to his private blog? Now I have to sorta find out what a blog is. Damn.