Ohio deer population

I agree Big Holla that us NR'S are not the problem. I've only hunted public land in my 4 years travelling to Ohio and have taken 1 deer. My buddy has taken 2. Each year we buy 2 tags each so our success rate is 18.75%. Our success may be a little lower than other NR's on public land but we have passed on some smaller bucks that others may have shot. From talking to other hunters I'd still be willing to bet the overall success rate for NR's on public land is no higher than 25%. There's this misconception that tons of deer are being taken off these public lands when honestly I don't think there are tons of deer on public land any more. I've hunted 5 different tracts of public in Muskingum county and have never seen a ton of deer or been overwhelmed by sign. This past year I saw 7 deer on an all day sit and that was the first time I've seen more than 3 deer in one sit. Plus at least half my sits I see nothing. Now I'm only talking about public land hunting and I don't know about private land hunted by NR's but I have to believe the vast majority hunt public because that's all they can afford. To blame the drop in deer population on NR's is misguided in my opinion. I believe the real culprit is the auto insurance lobbyists. They want the deer/car collision rate to drop and they have deep enough pockets to make things happen.

There are so many factors in the sharp decline in deer its hard to list them all. No doubt coyotes eating fawns is a major change since 10 years ago. The ODNR allowing limits of 17 deer was completely irresponsible.
As for non residents, they brought leasing to Ohio and kept Ohio residents from hunting places they hunted for thirty years. Not all non residents are here for monster bucks. some WV leasing guys left 5 doe carcasses after removing backstraps and hams within 100 feet of the residence. Well they got kicked out. Hard to believe but NE Ohio Amish lease land in SE Ohio and arrive in 16 passenger vans towing trailers and obliterate the deer on the leased property. Other hunters do not get to see what is going on.
There is no doubt in my mind the PCR reg was done to cater to non residents.
Did the ODNR raise the price of non resident licenses? No Way.
Where was the county WO yesterday? hiding at the local butcher shop both monday and tuesday trying to catch hunters who failed to do Dial a Check.

Yep, the number of Ohio hunters has drastically declined. The guys who would go the first day with a shotgun and maybe Saturday, no longer hunt because they can't get permission or the trophy hunters won't take them along during shotgun.
So how many less deer are taken?

I don't think it's a NR issue and I don't think everybody on here thinks it is either. Can't blame all the NR for the lack of deer because they came here and killed them. Can't say that if we closed out the NR hunters that it would help rebound the herd either. Most NR hunters come here looking to fill one tag on a good buck and maybe a second tag on a doe and that's not any different then a resident. Could and should NR fees be increased? Sure they can and should. I don't think it will stop many of those NR from coming here.

Problem comes from residents of Ohio. The DNR says we can shoot this many deer a year so we must have an over abundance of deer and some will do whatever they can to take their limit. Then you have damage permits and some guys that take advantage of that and shoot way more then they actually tag. Telecheck is also a gateway to the problem by allowing people that will always break the laws to do it even more and the people that might have been on the edge to go ahead and climb on over that fence with little concern of getting caught. Shoot a buck and tag it as a doe, tag a doe for another county and the list could go on IF they even decide to tag it in at all. Being able to print your own tags is an issue. Hell, you could photo copy your tag and use one to temp tag it until you make it home and cover your butt if you get checked by the ONE WO in your county that can't be everywhere all the time. Get home and toss the temp tag in the trash and make another photo copy and do it all over again. Many little problems with the system that needs addressed and fixed but the DNR won't bother to fix any of it while the FB and Insurance companies are stacking the deck from the top down.

NR are not an issue in my county. I would agree there could be areas regionally where they have "some" effect, but not anywhere close to the entire problem. Just another factor as BH1023 said.

One factor I have not heard is the rise in popularity of hunting. I believe overall the hunting population is declining. Statistics are not in front of me to verify, but I believe I have heard this. Sadly, I feel like the new influx of hunters are of a different mentality. I have not seen it from anyone on TOO, so please don't take it this way if you are new to hunting. I did take Hank (my tracking dog) out to locate a doe last week. More details came out the more we tracked. What he failed to mention on the phone was the front facing neck shot he took. Over the phone the story was "slightly quartering to me" to which I said was a low percentage/difficult shot. The more we tracked, he revealed of 2 other deer shot on the property by hunters in the last two weeks which were not recovered. Then he talked of hearing coyotes in the area and blaming them for running off the deer. Now, don't take this as me bashing the guy. I am not calling him dumb or unethical. What I feel is, he is genuinely not educated on bow hunting. With no archery mentor, he and his friends not having a lot of success. . . .this isn't helping the herd. I hate to make a blanket statement about all new hunters as this is not accurate. I am just not sure new hunters learning by watching hunting shows is helping any. I was that guy 6-7yrs ago. "Got to thin the does." I have diligently found or attempted to find every deer I have shot. I believe I have lost one. Other misses were clean misses. Poorly shot deer were recovered (with much effort at times.) We all start somewhere and have a learning curve. I am not sure "conservation" is a message new hunters are getting, nor is going out to recover deer you hit. If I hit it, I am looking for it. Not everyone does this and it disappoints me. 4-5yrs ago I was trying to fill every tag. It was new and exciting. This year I have 2 in the freezer and am not sure I will attempt to fill my third. Right now I am leaning towards not filling it unless I see an abundance of does and my buddy doesn't get one himself.

bowhunter1023 said:

Every swinging dick is a "hunter" these days. Wife and I were at dinner last night and a couple of city slickers came in and started talking about how their buddies drive deer using four wheelers. The one guy looked more like an interior decorator than a deer hunter. One damn things is for sure, I was a hunter before hunting was cool!

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Probably driving a 2wh drive with bedazzled pocket paints and listening to Florida Georgia Line? :smiley_crocodile:

bowhunter1023 said:

Every swinging dick is a "hunter" these days. Wife and I were at dinner last night and a couple of city slickers came in and started talking about how their buddies drive deer using four wheelers. The one guy looked more like an interior decorator than a deer hunter. One damn things is for sure, I was a hunter before hunting was cool!

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Your not kidding about everybody being a hunter these days. Marketing for hunting has come a long way and has added a lot to the problem. Shows make everybody think you can just step outside and bust a 170"+ buck and so everybody wants to be like that so they can be a pro hunter and make big money and have a hunting show.

I'm also with you about being a hunter before it was COOL lol. I did my guide school and the limited places to guide back then would be about 10% or less of what you could find now. Not to mention back then the only way to find a hunting place was from a friend or the back of a hunting magazine. Now everybody has the WEB lol. In the last 10 years the industry has boomed and there is a hunting outfitter or high fence in every county. Guiding hunts in Ohio in 96' was pretty much unheard of but look where it is now.

The problem is the Dept. Of ag and the farm bureau has infiltrated the DNR. They are holding prestigious jobs with the DNR.... that's a conflict of interest.

Kaiser878 said:

The problem is the Dept. Of ag and the farm bureau has infiltrated the DNR. They are holding prestigious jobs with the DNR.... that's a conflict of interest.

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All the people with the power got voted in and then the people below them got appointed to their position. Who do you think funded the campaigns of the elected? I'm sure you will find insurances putting in a ton of money into the elected. In return the elected appoints who the insurance wants in that position so it's easier to get what they want. Even IF (and that's a big if) Tonk wanted to change things his hands are tied because of his boss. That's why I said the deck is stacked from the top down. If you could get anybody in the wildlife division to talk to you as a person and not go off the scripted response I bet you would find them bitching and talking about the same things we are. Just a hunch but I bet I'm not that far off either.

Weekly harvest report is up.
http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/hunting...y-species/deer/deer-harvest-yearly-comparison

Hmm...Meigs County

Antlered all seasons combined to date: -13.02%
Antlerless all seasons combined to date: -13.45%

Fact, not fiction....

lol Allen county up 21 deer the first day no fuggin way.

Steelheadtracker said:

Sorry for misunderstanding your post hickslawns. Thanks for posting those numbers jakalope. I guess the only positive I can draw from it is Atleast my county's numbers are up by a few deer.

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Being up might not be a good thing. You can't count the dead deer you can only count the live deer left behind to repopulate.

bowhunter1023 said:

Washington County First 67 Days

Archery Antlered 480 (13) 499 (14) +3.96%
Archery Antlerless 476 (13) 341(14) -28.36% (No more antlerless tags.)
All Season Antlered 892 (13) 821 (14) -7.96%
All Season Antlerless 1,152 (13) 851 (14) -26.13%
Total: 2,044 (13) 1,672 (14) -18.20%

State as a whole down 9% with the only increase being archery killed bucks. Pretty well mirrors TOO.

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And the reason for more buck kills for archery is because of less does.

yotehunter said:

And the reason for more buck kills for archery is because of less does.

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My perception (I have no facts currently to back this) is that more folks are archery hunting now which may be a culprit for increase buck kills as well.

huntn2 said:

My perception (I have no facts currently to back this) is that more folks are archery hunting now which may be a culprit for increase buck kills as well.

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Or more people are shooting dinks because there's less does.

As stated earlier another problem is people that kill deer and never find them. I'm not talking about accidentally making a bad shot and not recovering your deer after looking properly. That happens, even if it sucks. I'm talking about the people that consistently take shots that are unethical resulting in a lot of lost deer. I know someone that has hit around 6-8 deer (not sure on the exact number) in the last two season that he never found. He takes bad shots then goes looking for the deer to soon even if he knows it was a bad shot. If he doesn't find the deer on the initial search he usually just forgets about it and shoots another one. That really bothers me. So do hunters that shoot at anything and destroy the local herd in places, aka Amish.