No mans land

Hedgelj said:

I'm beginning to lean towards Hoytmania on this one. The angle doesn't appear flat enough with the body to be going along the outside of the ribs. Anything just inside the ribs I'm not sure how it wouldn't hit lungs unless it was a field point. Otherwise the only other option is a diaphragm hit which somehow misses the lungs/liver and stomach which the position is just about right for that. There are multiple muscles in the diaphragm so even if you take out one or 2 you can still breathe, just with additional effort and not as efficiently.

Click to expand...

IDK.. I measured the arrow sticking out earlier and it's only 14 inches. So even a woman with a 25 inch draw would still have gotten 11 inches of penetration. Even if it was only 5 inches of penetration, if the BH remained loose in it's chest cavity it wouldn't survive longer than 10 or so hours. Say an initial strike hit behind the lungs only contacting the diaphragm. Brush, limbs, walking and bedding would cause massive internal injury to the stomach, diaphragm and back of the lungs.

.

Here is the one Brock posted. This buck was shot dead nuts. It broke the arrow off and kept 16 inches of it inside. This pic was 2 days later.

.

Here is another Brock posted.

brock ratcliff said:

Blow this up and look at the "11". It looks to be slightly farther forward than it was, they do that when you gut 'em and hang 'em upside-down as you all know. This was the entrance, exit was nearly in the same place. Shot around 5 pm, still alive 10:30 or 11 the next morning.

Click to expand...

.




Here's one a year later that AT1010 shot.

Hedgelj said:

Can someone elaborate to this nonbowhunter about "no mans land"?

Click to expand...

No mans land. A theoretical "void" below the spine and above the lungs where no vitals exist. A gap if you will. Some don't believe it exists, others do. Many deer have been shot in this area and survived. It's like the Bermuda Triangle. Is it real, who knows. But there is enough evidence to suggest something is happening, the "what" has always been in debate.

Personally the most convincing theory That I have read is thoracic vacuum. In simple terms. The chest cavity works off of being air tight except for the throat. During inhalation, the diaphragm contracts and moves in the rear direction, thus enlarging the volume of the thoracic cavity (chest). This reduces intra-thoracic pressure: In other words, enlarging the cavity creates suction that draws air into the lungs through the windpipe. Exhaling works very similar just opposite, the muscle contracts the opposite way and forces air out. For this to work the chest cavity has to be air tight. The lungs are like balloons with an opening through the esophagus. The best theory that I have read is that the deer is shot while exhaling. When exhaling air is forced from the lungs. The arrow pokes a hole in the chest cavity and all vacuum is lost. This sudden loss in vacuum of the chest cavity by the newly punctured hole causes the lungs to instantly sag at the top and create a dip. The arrow sails through this dip either not touching the lungs or not touching enough to cause a failure of the lungs.

The way a broadhead works is by puncturing a hole in the chest cavity and lungs. This renders the system inoperable as both the chest cavity and the lungs need to be air tight to inhale and exhale. In short they collapse. Try as he might the deer can't breathe. They usually suck air in to their stomachs in an effort to suck air in the lungs. The stomach and abdominal cavity are very similar to the lungs and thoracic cavity. This is why often when you double lung a deer and go to field dress him his stomach is very bloated with air.

Once the lungs collapse and can't refill with air the deer only has the oxygen in it's blood to survive on. This is used up very rapidly. Similar to if you breathe all the way out and hold it vs in and hold it. You can only hold it out for a moment before you're blood uses all it's available oxygen and you pass out. Holding it in creates a reserve that you slowly use. In the case of collapsed lungs there is no in. Combine that with the amount of blood going through the lungs and the deer succumbs to two things. Rapid suffocation and Pulmonary edema (drowns in own blood)

Jamie said:

I do believe there is a small void, but I don't think this arrow is in it. what I envision from the pic is that this deer was shot, possibly with a relatively short arrow, at a very steep quartering away angle, perhaps something beyond 45 degrees. arrow cuts through several inches of hide and tissue before it is stopped cold by the shoulder blade, never actually entering the chest cavity. if that broadhead is just flopping around inside the chest cavity, even if high enough to not cause lethal damage to the lungs, it would eventually fall out or get pulled out. I think the end of that arrow is firmly planted in the near side shoulder blade, or perhaps even a vertebrae, but still not inside the ribcage. even if that arrow goes through the void and hits the inside of opposite shoulder hard enough to stick, arrow gets broken by running deer and fletch end falls out.

Click to expand...

The impact side shoulder blade is well forward of the impact though. It can't be at that angle and also lodged in the blade.

Jamie said:

it can if it hits that high ridge on the outside of the shoulder blade. could have slid behind shoulder, though, and be embedded in spine. either way, that arrow is not in the ribcage despite the foot or more of arrow that is "in" the deer.

Click to expand...

I might buy spine. But the paddle is a good 10 inches forward of that impact, and the arrow angle if embedded isn't close to what would be needed to be behind the paddle.