Here They Are: 2013-2014 Season Proposals

brock ratcliff · Feb 7, 2013

Jackalope said:
Spin it how you like The "Early muzzy season" is a wet dream of the Farm Bureau and if you don;t believe it I can sho you a paper to the DNR where Farm Bureau says it should be done.. I have said it time and time again.. They will do a slight of hand and try to say they did us a favor but in reality it's a hill of beans.

I've personally know this was going to happen since strouds. Ad when I got back and posted the following...

This is still a monumental step in the right direction.. There is no "Nuclear option" to win this where it changes overnight and we arise victorious.. The biggest part of this is that we have now gone to a county by county management plan.. The first thing that needed to happen for us to start to see a turn around in Ohio was county by county management. Until that happened nothing else was possible. This breaks the state down in to much more manageable units. It also allows us to attack the problem at a micro level. We can now make a case for a county and it's not diluted by the other 50 counties in the same boat.. A small change can be made to a county and another and another. We didn't win the war.. Not even close. But the enemy is no longer united, and is instead fragmented and capable of being handled on a micro level.

They have said all along that they figure each county's population individually. Essentially, there is no real difference here! Your map shows that clearly. They are just wording it differently to appease the natives. It is the same soup served in a different bowl.

Jackalope · Feb 7, 2013

brock ratcliff said:
They have said all along that they figure each county's population individually. Essentially, there is no real difference here! Your map shows that clearly. They are just wording it differently to appease the natives. It is the same soup served in a different bowl.

Today it is... But under the old zone method nothing could be changed without changing everything. It wasn't versatile and left little room for permit movement. The first and foremost thing that needed to happen was a county by county instead of a zone. Before we could only make the case that Zone 3 should have this limit. Or we should get rid of antlerless permits in this zone or that zone.. Or this county should be moved from 2 to 1. etc. These were all major changes that was a gigantic battle to make happen.

Now we can make a case that tags should be reduced in this or that county individually. They can even be reduced in fraction. Move an either sex tag available all season to an antlerless available half a season. We could even push for antlerless tag limitations per county. Say only 500 for sale. vs over the counter.. We could even push for removal of early muzzy from a specific county.. The county by county nomenclature makes it far easier to push for positive change. The options are far broader now than they were before, before the only thing we could push was to move a county to a lesser zone.

hickslawns · Feb 7, 2013

Maybe so. I am just not seeing it. I think the ODNR just blew smoke up your shorts and told you it was good for you. In all reality, they haven't changed anything in my opinion. I feel our county has more liberal limits now than before.

brock ratcliff · Feb 7, 2013

I disagree. There are still three basic scenerios that each county falls under - the same as it's been for several years. Counties have always moved from one zone to another, as they will continue to when they see fit. There are no real changes IMO. As far as the bag limits, again no real changes. Most people cannot drink 36 beers in a day as most won't shoot 6 deer in a year. This is like saying we are only allowed to drink 24 beers in a day... still most are not going to do it. Many drinkers can drink 12, and many hunters can kill 2 or 3. Still under the "limit", but not really a difference to be had in the harvest.

Dannmann801 · Feb 7, 2013

I'm just gonna go hunt and do the best I can.

Jackalope · Feb 7, 2013

hickslawns said:
Maybe so. I am just not seeing it. I think the ODNR just blew smoke up your shorts and told you it was good for you. In all reality, they haven't changed anything in my opinion. I feel our county has more liberal limits now than before.

As I have said. And I guess I'll say it again.. Not shit has changed in regards to deer being killed. I'll repeat it... Not shit has changed in regards to deer being killed. It's the same old shit in that regard, they just added some ribbons and bows..

I even said years ago the first thing they will do is try to reword stuff and blow smoke up our ass. I knew they would do that for a long time. When the heat gets hot change a bunch of crap and pretend they did us a favor.. Repackage it... So don't think for a second I fell for this and think it's the cats ass.

But at the end of the day it's a change.. It's a change that HAD to happen FIRST before anything else can be done. This will never do a 180 and haul ass in the other direction.. It's a slow methodical chip away process.. It's like gun control.. Today it's 30 round mags, tomorrow it's the rifle, the bolt guns, then the pistols.. Today it's a county by county management mentality, tomorrow it's permit reductions, the next it's removing early muzzy from this county, and on and on.. None of this could happen without first moving away from a zone mentality. Under zones one change applied across the board. That's not the case anymore..

Lundy · Feb 7, 2013

Nothing has changed except it is an even more agressive doe reduction plan to move the buck to doe ratio meter while reducing further the populations to the target goals.

Before they were happy to just reduce population, with the new proposals they want a more targeted doe reduction approach in the continued reductions that will take place.

Schu72 · Feb 7, 2013

brock ratcliff said:
I disagree. There are still three basic scenerios that each county falls under - the same as it's been for several years. Counties have always moved from one zone to another, as they will continue to when they see fit. There are no real changes IMO. As far as the bag limits, again no real changes. Most people cannot drink 36 beers in a day as most won't shoot 6 deer in a year. This is like saying we are only allowed to drink 24 beers in a day... still most are not going to do it. Many drinkers can drink 12, and many hunters can kill 2 or 3. Still under the "limit", but not really a difference to be had in the harvest.

If I understand the proposal you are correct. Still 3 zones. Limits are not exclusive to each county, but groups of counties or "zones". You can shoot 9 total. 2 in a, 3 in b and 4 in c. Nothing really new here, other than what they did with the antlerless permits.

MK111 · Feb 7, 2013

Wow 88 post in 6 hrs. It looks like the State wants to lower the herd numbers and that will happen with the new early ML hunting. I will go out on a limb here and say the number taken that weekend will out number the bonus gun weekend.
But on the other hand there are far more shotgun hunters than ML hunters so it may take couple years to see the results in numbers the state wants to see. Then maybe not. This surely will increase the ML gun sales this year in Ohio.
Frank

Jackalope · Feb 7, 2013

Did any of you actually expect the DNR to admit their mistakes and make a complete reversal of policy and reduction goals?? Did you actually think the DNR was going to say "Crap we we're wrong, we need more does, the state is a 1 deer state for the next two years"...

Changes don't happen overnight. Nothing happens fast.. And you will never see an instant about face.. What you can do is take what you've achieved, build on it, and continue the fight. Win the battles and you'll win the war.. Some may say this is a wash, just lipstick on a pig. But it's not worse, and I don't see it as being the same either.. They could have just as easily kept bonus gun and made the early muzzy season either sex. While we may argue the impact of permit reductions they could have just as easily increased them, left them the same, or even put them back to available all season. They could have made it an early shotgun season where people would have 2 more rounds.. But they made it muzzy and doe only.. Not Ideal, but it's still a reduction in opportunity by 2 rounds and 50% of the targets.. They could have just left it in giant ass zones where changes are all but impossible and effect a zone as a whole or the entire state.

As I said. There is no nuclear option where the DNR is going to bend a knee and fall on their sword.. At the end of the day you just have to keep chipping away, keep fighting, and take each victory as it comes no matter how small.. We are nothing but a bunch of hicks trying to change a powerful state governmental organization backed by massive corporations with billions of dollars.. You take what you can, get back on your fucking horse, and ride to the next fight..

mrex · Feb 7, 2013

Jackalope said:
Lets get a pool together to see how long before Rex shows back up (Last post Dec 17) ... lmao.. I have dibbs on 6:30 pm today..

That's impressive Joe!

Jackalope said:
Rex told Tonk. I told Tonk.. "You are just begging people to break the law".. Their response "We aren't going to regulate based on what a poacher "Might" do.

Actually, that was the response I got from former DOW Chief Mike Budzik when they first kicked around this bad idea back in 1996. I'll never have the divisions back on this one. And I'll add that the groundwork is already laid for a future either sex statewide early muzzy season. The justification is...other states with similar quality to ours already have them without adverse effects.

The rest of this BS...I believe I'll bow out of this mensa meeting.

Milo · Feb 7, 2013

mrex said:
That's impressive Joe!

Actually, that was the response I got from former DOW Chief Mike Budzik when they first kicked around this bad idea back in 1996. I'll never have the divisions back on this one. And I'll add that the groundwork is already laid for a future either sex statewide early muzzy season. The justification is...other states with similar quality to ours already have them without adverse effects.

The rest of this BS...I believe I'll bow out of this mensa meeting.

You will have to show your mensa card to get into the meeting anyway

hickslawns · Feb 7, 2013

Jackalope said:
As I have said. And I guess I'll say it again.. Not shit has changed in regards to deer being killed. I'll repeat it... Not shit has changed in regards to deer being killed. It's the same old shit in that regard, they just added some ribbons and bows..

Just an FYI. You will probably have to repeat this 27 more times in this thread as it develops. Wanted to forewarn you. Also wanted to thank you. This cracked me up. I can see you sitting there pissed off saying "Y'all are missing the point!"

In the end, it doesn't matter. We are piss ants in the eyes of the ODNR. They are too wrapped up by bigger fish to keep happy to consider the hunters' opinions. The local businesses which rely on revenue from NR and out of town hunters will be the ones getting screwed the hardest at the end of the road. I have no problems driving to KY, IN, or even MI for a change of pace. I can drive to these places as easily as I can to SE Ohio. I will go where the deer are and my money will follow. It is what it is.

Jackalope · Feb 7, 2013

mrex said:
That's impressive Joe!

Actually, that was the response I got from former DOW Chief Mike Budzik when they first kicked around this bad idea back in 1996. I'll never have the divisions back on this one. And I'll add that the groundwork is already laid for a future either sex statewide early muzzy season. The justification is...other states with similar quality to ours already have them without adverse effects.

The rest of this BS...I believe I'll bow out of this mensa meeting.

You must have told Tonk that story because it's the same thing he said at strouds.

As for Mensa. Good one. Lol. Especially when one compares the members here to the ones you've been engaging in debate with lately. Don't let them bug you. We didn't.

Jackalope · Feb 7, 2013

hickslawns said:
Just an FYI. You will probably have to repeat this 27 more times in this thread as it develops. Wanted to forewarn you. Also wanted to thank you. This cracked me up. I can see you sitting there pissed off saying "Y'all are missing the point!"

In the end, it doesn't matter. We are piss ants in the eyes of the ODNR. They are too wrapped up by bigger fish to keep happy to consider the hunters' opinions. The local businesses which rely on revenue from NR and out of town hunters will be the ones getting screwed the hardest at the end of the road. I have no problems driving to KY, IN, or even MI for a change of pace. I can drive to these places as easily as I can to SE Ohio. I will go where the deer are and my money will follow. It is what it is.

I was banging my head on the keyboard. lmao.

LonewolfNopack · Feb 7, 2013

This may have already been brought up, haven't read the entire thread yet, but why the HELL do our flat, treeless counties of the the SW have a higher bag limit then many the rolling and "deer rich" counties of the SE and East Central. This just baffles my mind. I would love to see the data for that. Must be more whining farmers and nationwide insurance agents in western counties.

hickslawns · Feb 7, 2013

Jackalope said:
I was banging my head on the keyboard. lmao.

I got your point. Just not sure if I agree. You cannot drive across country if the infrastructure isn't in place to do so. You are saying the groundwork is now in place to make small changes. I see blueprints, but I don't foresee the hunters talking the architect into a "change order". Time will tell on this one.

Huckleberry Finn · Feb 7, 2013

I moved to the ghetto with the intentions of shooting about 12 deer out of some old lady's flower bed and they change the urban tag rules. Geesh.

Jackalope · Feb 7, 2013

hickslawns said:
I got your point. Just not sure if I agree. You cannot drive across country if the infrastructure isn't in place to do so. You are saying the groundwork is now in place to make small changes. I see blueprints, but I don't foresee the hunters talking the architect into a "change order". Time will tell on this one.

A year ago when we were screaming for county by county management instead of zones did you foresee it happening? When we're were screaming for the removal of bonus tags durring gun in zone C did you foresee it happening? When we were screaming for a reduction in antleeless tags even though we knew it made little impact on overall harvest did you foresee it happening? Hide and see said the blind man to his deaf wife. Hide and see.

LonewolfNopack · Feb 7, 2013

brock ratcliff said:
At this point, I'd sleep like a baby. I used to think you had to abide by the rules to feel right about killing a deer. These new rules make no sense... I could sleep. That, I think is the greatest damage done by the DOW... they have lost their lofty perch in my mind.

10-4 that brother, you me and a ton of other hunters. The dumb hunters who cant think for themselves will still worship them though. As for the rest of us, I think we are starting to smarten up. The DOW of yesteryear is not the DOW of today.

Here They Are: 2013-2014 Season Proposals

Dignitary Member

Dignitary Member

Dignitary Member

Dignitary Member

Dignitary Member

Dignitary Member

Member

Well-Known Member

"Happy Hunting Grounds in the Sky"

Dignitary Member

*Supporting member*

Tatonka guide.

Dignitary Member

Dignitary Member

Dignitary Member

Junior Member

Dignitary Member

Senior Member

Dignitary Member

Junior Member

Supporting member