I have been shooting the Hornady SST's. Might need to shoot them again at longer ranges before taking them to the field. Thanks Joe. Been using my muzzle loader for gun season the last two years. Every now and then I carry the slug gun but generally if I am on the ground. Might need to re-think it.
Not sure if it was luck but a guy took one off the lease with about a 170 yard shot with a sst out of a 870. Biggest bodied buck taken off the lease to date.. Where I hunt at down there, I have several places with 100 yard shots, but nothing longer, so they work for me..
My longest shot with the Marlin 512 shooting the copper solids is 120 yards and it went 30 yards before piling up... I sighted this gun in with them 15 years ago and the selection was thin too choose from back then and every time I think I should try some of the newer slugs on the market I tell myself why mess with success?
IMO, if you have a rifled slug barrel and good optics, there is absolutely NO advantage to hunting with a muzzleloader during deer gun season. A well-matched gun/sabot combo is accurate out to 200 yds with a good rest... AND you have 3 shots.
Schu72
Well-Known Member
I'm with you JB. Advances in sabots have closed the gap significantly. Add in a scope with a ballistic compensating recticle and its a fairly level playing field.
Muzzleloaders are OK. I'll be honest... I don't have much fun shooting deer with any kind of gun anymore. It just doesn't give me anything near the satisfaction I get from shooting a deer with my bow. With a bow, I hunt the deer... With a gun, I simply shoot and kill them. I have nothing against gun-hunting for deer by any means. It's just that when it comes to gun-hunting, the "fun factor" of using one weapon over another goes out the window... they're all the same to me. A rifled slug gun is just more effective and proficient, IMO.
dante322
*Supporting Member*
Yeah JB, but I haven't killed one with my muzzle loader yet and I have with my shotgun and handgun.
Sorry. Not trying to side track. I do believe I will carry a different standard for bucks with a gun than my bow. If I were toting a gun I would have been tagged out already. As it is, I have yet to tag a deer locally.
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Sorry. Not trying to side track. I do believe I will carry a different standard for bucks with a gun than my bow. If I were toting a gun I would have been tagged out already. As it is, I have yet to tag a deer locally.
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Huckleberry Finn
Senior Member
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I don't really know if I agree with that, coming from where I'm am. I'm not convinced that rifled slug guns are more effective and proficient. Muzzleloaders are called 'muzzleloading rifles' for a reason, and no shotgun can match the accuracy of a rifle. Shotguns do go boom everytime and there are 2 more shells (or more, if you're my neighbors!) behind it. But, I think there's been a greater leap in muzzleloading technology that I've seen (last 6 or 7 yrs).. That said, I haven't hunted with a shotgun in 3 years and probably wont this year - but even that gun is a smooth barrel and the good Lord knows I have missed plenty of deer with it. There's obviously a lot I don't know and some of these posts about the accuracy of slug guns are unbelievable...guess that means I need to shoot some of them! I really like what you and others have said about rifled slug guns and new sabots, and that's something I'll be looking at in the future.
There's some truth to what you're saying, Huck. A quality muzzleloader with the perfect powder charge and sabot combination can give you match-quality results. But it's not unusual for a rifled slug gun to deliver 0.5-1" groups at 100yds... or 2-3" groups at 150 yds... and close to that at 200yds. IMO, even a perfectly set up muzzleloader isn't going to do much better than that. You're not shooting for score when you're shooting at deer, so is the extra, miniscule difference in accuracy more valuable than the 2 extra shots?... or the almost guaranteed fire?... or the speed of reloading? In my opinion, any serious gun-hunter who isn't hunting with a rifled slug barrel and sabots is handicapping themselves.
Maybe we need another thread started?
Great debate! What I have read (not experienced first hand) told me the greater accuracies are with the 20g slugs. Downside to this is in the loss of kinetic energy retained at 200yds. Even with the rifled slug barrels, I am still thinking you need a perfectly clear shot, and you are going to want to have a good shot angle. In regards to the 12g using the rifled barrel and top end slugs, I am thinking 150yds is about all mine would want. My BDC reticle on the muzzle loader displays drop out to 250-300yds. Not sure of the retained kinetic energy at this distance though.
Great debate! What I have read (not experienced first hand) told me the greater accuracies are with the 20g slugs. Downside to this is in the loss of kinetic energy retained at 200yds. Even with the rifled slug barrels, I am still thinking you need a perfectly clear shot, and you are going to want to have a good shot angle. In regards to the 12g using the rifled barrel and top end slugs, I am thinking 150yds is about all mine would want. My BDC reticle on the muzzle loader displays drop out to 250-300yds. Not sure of the retained kinetic energy at this distance though.
bigten05
*Supporting Member*
I say again - the copper solid sabots rock....just make sure ya get a good boresight before trying to sight in so you don't waste shots getting sighted in $$$$$$$$
Shot at about 47 yards from tree stand...
Entrance wound...
Exit wound...
Shot at about 47 yards from tree stand...
Entrance wound...
Exit wound...
Lundy
Member
- 1,307
- 127
That is a pretty broad statement.
Not all slugs are created equal, in this thread the favorites run from 1450 FPS (copper solids) to 1900 (Federal Barnes Expanders) as published. Those speeds are however established through 30" barrels. Most real world slug guns will run 100-150 FPS slower than the published velocities when shot through the chronograph.
All of the slugs mentioned have a reputation of being excellent deer slugs and certainly have brought the slug gun much closer to the performance you can obtain from a muzzleloader, especially those slugs with a BC around .210 pushing 1900 FPS.
The problem starts with if you can get your gun to utilize all of that speed and energy. Not all slugs guns will be accurate with the fastest load available, especially when you start to extend the ranges. That is why copper solids shoot so well from almost all slug guns, they are considerably slower and just easier to get to shoot than the top speed and pressure loads from many guns. Federal says there Barnes expanders are CAPABILE of 4" groups at 200 yds, I believe they are, but I don't believe many slugs guns are capable, or at least I haven't seen many that are. I am also not sure that many may know that with a 100yd zero they will be 14" low at 200 yds (That is the 1900 FPS load) or that they could set a 150 yd zero and be around 3.5 high at 80, and 8 low at 200. That same load has a wind drift, 10 MPH 90 degree wind, of 7" at 150 yds and 12" at 200 yds. These are all numbers that are doable under the right conditions, no doubt
A muzzleloader just provides a lot more load adjustment flexibility than you can obtain with a shotgun slug. Instead of buying boxes of multiple brands (been there done that) to see what my shotgun likes, I can just adjust the powder charge slightly, or change the sabot to achieve maximum accuracy and performance.
I like my slug guns, I have an 870 20 ga with a Hastings barrel, a Mossberg bolt slug gun, a 12 and a 20 H&R ultra Slugsters. They shoot great and have all the accuracy I would ever need from a slug gun if all of my hunting was 150 yds and under.
I hunt wide open country and it does offer longer shots if I choose to take them under the right conditions. The slug guns I own with any ammunition available will not offer me the ballistics or accuracy that I can achieve from my muzzleloaders at longer yardages. I started hunting with my Knights as my primary deer guns around 10 years ago just for the added performance they provide if I ever needed it. Three years ago I kind of retired my Knights and went to the Savage muzzleloaders and now it is not even a remotely close call on performance as compared to any slug guns.
Slug guns are great but I hunt primarily with a MZ only because it has the capability to place a shot where I want it to go at 200 yds and beyond if I choose. I really don't feel handicapped or limited by hunting with a MZ at all. I grew up as a bowhunter and still believe in one well placed shot, the time required to reload has never been an issue or required.
chetter - The Federals shoot well from my Mossberg bolt gun. Inside 3" at 100 yds, I only have a 1X4 varible on that gun. With higher mag it could tighten up a little. Good luck
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