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More Muzzleloader help please!

giles

Cull buck specialist
Supporting Member
Found myself in front of these this morning...somehow got the wife on board. I have never really looked into these. But with me totally giving up on my 870...I need to step my game up.


Is this a fair price? Is the optima worth the extra jingle? What about the stainless?
 

giles

Cull buck specialist
Supporting Member
A little shocked here. No one like these? I thought the Optima was one of the ones to have. Michael has one and has had problems with the firing pin sticking. He's the only one I know with one and takes blame for that problem.
 

Fletch

Senior Member
Supporting Member
6,078
118
I just got a CVA Accura MR... So far I love it.. As far as the firing pin sticking... My manuel said to take the firing pin out and clean it when cleaning the gun before putting it away for the year... Very easy to do..
 
I thought cleaning the firing pin every time the muzzy was dirty was a given.


The manual or the video on the CVA made it seem like you didn't. Not sure how it was worded. It does get pretty dirty. You need to modify a screwdriver to be able to screw it out, but once you do it is very easy to remove and clean. You probably wouldn't have to do it every time, but since it is simple I think you are better off doing it.
 

Bigslam51

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
25,778
127
Stark County
The manual or the video on the CVA made it seem like you didn't. Not sure how it was worded. It does get pretty dirty. You need to modify a screwdriver to be able to screw it out, but once you do it is very easy to remove and clean. You probably wouldn't have to do it every time, but since it is simple I think you are better off doing it.
Probably why Michaels is sticking. The stinky bastard probably never cleaned it[emoji23]
 

Lundy

Member
1,307
127
The Optima is a good gun, but in reality they all will shot just about the same.

Any MZ with the same length barrel using the same ignition system, 209 primers, with the same powder and the same bullet will generate the same velocity and ballistics.

However, you will need to find what bullet, sabot, powder each individual gun likes best to maximize it's potential. Any of those guns you pictured could easily be set up at under 2" at 100 yds all day long.

And again, even though you can fine tune with loose powder and reduce groups, to kill a deer it is not needed and pellets are as convenient as it gets. I don't personally care for them much and haven't used a pellet in a long, long, time but they get the job done just fine but do burn very dirty and offer some other challenges but they can be overcome.

Note - Triple 7 is apparently an gluconic acid (sugar-based) propellant. In many guns it leaves a "crud ring" near the breech plug area that can make it very difficult to seat the next load. A spit patch between rounds normally solves this issue as T7 is water soluble. All BP substitutes are very dirt burning powders, Pyrodex which still has sulfur and is very corrosive, Triple 7 with sugar base that crystallizes and leaves a bunch of residue and then BH 209, the newest addition to the market a few years ago that offers better velocities per weight and is much, much, much cleaner burning and is "non corrosive" If I were looking to purchase a new MZ today I would purchase a gun that is BH 209 capable.
 

giles

Cull buck specialist
Supporting Member
The Optima is a good gun, but in reality they all will shot just about the same.

Any MZ with the same length barrel using the same ignition system, 209 primers, with the same powder and the same bullet will generate the same velocity and ballistics.

However, you will need to find what bullet, sabot, powder each individual gun likes best to maximize it's potential. Any of those guns you pictured could easily be set up at under 2" at 100 yds all day long.

And again, even though you can fine tune with loose powder and reduce groups, to kill a deer it is not needed and pellets are as convenient as it gets. I don't personally care for them much and haven't used a pellet in a long, long, time but they get the job done just fine but do burn very dirty and offer some other challenges but they can be overcome.

Note - Triple 7 is apparently an gluconic acid (sugar-based) propellant. In many guns it leaves a "crud ring" near the breech plug area that can make it very difficult to seat the next load. A spit patch between rounds normally solves this issue as T7 is water soluble. All BP substitutes are very dirt burning powders, Pyrodex which still has sulfur and is very corrosive, Triple 7 with sugar base that crystallizes and leaves a bunch of residue and then BH 209, the newest addition to the market a few years ago that offers better velocities per weight and is much, much, much cleaner burning and is "non corrosive" If I were looking to purchase a new MZ today I would purchase a gun that is BH 209 capable.

I was looking to go with BH209 with the next one. How do I know if the gun is capable of taking it?
 

5Cent

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
12,291
212
North Central Ohio
Giles, any of the ML's will get the job done. Any inline is the same principle wise, some just offer more user friendly designs. Whats wrong with the 870?

Stepping out on a limb but it seems to be prevalent more often. What leads one to think its the equipment that is the issue? All too often its the bow, the gun, the arrows, the broadhead, the bullet/slug, etc. I am happy to tell you, its not the shoes that make you run so fast...
 

giles

Cull buck specialist
Supporting Member
Giles, any of the ML's will get the job done. Any inline is the same principle wise, some just offer more user friendly designs. Whats wrong with the 870?

Stepping out on a limb but it seems to be prevalent more often. What leads one to think its the equipment that is the issue? All too often its the bow, the gun, the arrows, the broadhead, the bullet/slug, etc. I am happy to tell you, its not the shoes that make you run so fast...

You are right. Nothing wrong with the gun, it's me. Nothing wrong with my TC Impact either. I need to start adding as my kids are getting older and showing more interest in hunting. So just having one around isn't going to work much longer.

The crossbow, I bought a cheap one to get me by and it did just that.

Essentially, I'm upgrading and expanding what I have while I have the money to do so.

I'd be happy to buy a couple of less expensive models over an expensive one. I ain't trying to drive nails with the thing and I doubt my wife or kids will either.

Also, the in-line can be used during all the gun seasons! Win/win purchase in that aspect. Just like any of my kids can shoot this crossbow with the adjustable stock.
 

5Cent

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
12,291
212
North Central Ohio
You are right. Nothing wrong with the gun, it's me. Nothing wrong with my TC Impact either. I need to start adding as my kids are getting older and showing more interest in hunting. So just having one around isn't going to work much longer.

The crossbow, I bought a cheap one to get me by and it did just that.

Essentially, I'm upgrading and expanding what I have while I have the money to do so.

I'd be happy to buy a couple of less expensive models over an expensive one. I ain't trying to drive nails with the thing and I doubt my wife or kids will either.

Also, the in-line can be used during all the gun seasons! Win/win purchase in that aspect. Just like any of my kids can shoot this crossbow with the adjustable stock.

To expand opportunity, I understand and respect. To replace poor form or shot placement, its a never ending battle.

Anyone of the guns above will work, some just allow more powder, sabot and range time buying power over others. I believe in you get what you pay for but do not believe that just because something new has hit the market makes it better than previous models by default. Broadhead and sabot discussions are really interesting to me. Most forgot that it is a "system" and each variable is only a piece of the broader puzzle...equipment and shooter.

No, I do not shoot X's, I am a pie plate type of hunter.
 
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giles

Cull buck specialist
Supporting Member
Ultimately, I'd like for them all to be the same gun and shooting the same thing. That way everyone can feel comfortable and I don't have to buy something different for everyone.
 

"J"

Git Off My Lawn
Supporting Member
56,741
274
North Carolina
The Optima is a good gun, but in reality they all will shot just about the same.

Any MZ with the same length barrel using the same ignition system, 209 primers, with the same powder and the same bullet will generate the same velocity and ballistics.

However, you will need to find what bullet, sabot, powder each individual gun likes best to maximize it's potential. Any of those guns you pictured could easily be set up at under 2" at 100 yds all day long.

And again, even though you can fine tune with loose powder and reduce groups, to kill a deer it is not needed and pellets are as convenient as it gets. I don't personally care for them much and haven't used a pellet in a long, long, time but they get the job done just fine but do burn very dirty and offer some other challenges but they can be overcome.

Note - Triple 7 is apparently an gluconic acid (sugar-based) propellant. In many guns it leaves a "crud ring" near the breech plug area that can make it very difficult to seat the next load. A spit patch between rounds normally solves this issue as T7 is water soluble. All BP substitutes are very dirt burning powders, Pyrodex which still has sulfur and is very corrosive, Triple 7 with sugar base that crystallizes and leaves a bunch of residue and then BH 209, the newest addition to the market a few years ago that offers better velocities per weight and is much, much, much cleaner burning and is "non corrosive" If I were looking to purchase a new MZ today I would purchase a gun that is BH 209 capable.

Kim, does a new breach plug need to be added for the BH209??