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Mixed feelings

Ohiosam

*Supporting Member*
11,708
191
Mahoning Co.
A golf course just north of Youngstown closed and the new owners are making it a high fence "hunting preserve" I'm not a fan of theis type of place but I hate the idea of antis winning anything. It's all over local media and talk shows.

VIENNA — The Ohio Department of Natural Resources has approved a permit to allow the owners of the former Candywood Golf Course on Scoville North Road to operate a hunting preserve on the property.

The applicant is Anthony J Candella, who is a member of the family that owns the golf course.

Officials say they believe the licensing will allow the preserve to offer hunting of white tail deer, but the ODNR was not able to say for sure this morning what game will be hunted.

"After careful review of the application and multiple on-site visits, the ODNR Division of Wildlife determined that the application has met the legal requirements for licensure. The license has been approved," said Jamey Emmert, ODNR Division of Wildlife communications specialist.

A Youngstown woman is planning an April 4 rally outside of the Vienna Township trustees meeting to bring public awareness to the business, which she opposed because of concerns for stray bullets and on moral grounds.

- See more at: http://www.vindy.com/news/2016/apr/...e-candywood-golf-course/#sthash.pi6U6PU2.dpuf

http://www.vindy.com/news/2016/apr/05/both-sides-zero-in-on-captive-hunting/
 

Ohiosam

*Supporting Member*
11,708
191
Mahoning Co.
An hour of sign-waving and chanting protesters standing out in the cold was followed by more conservative demonstrations inside the Vienna Township hall by township residents – all over the captive hunting preserve planned for the former Candywood Golf Course on Scoville North Road.

About 100 animal-rights activists held signs and chanted with messages such as “killing for profits” and “dying for a pathetic person’s ego” in front of the hall.

Among them was Holly Justice of Youngstown, who organized Monday’s protest and publicized the application while it was pending with the Ohio Department of Natural Resources Division of Wildlife.

The division approved the license Friday, and the Ohio Department of Agriculture also is expected to approve a permit.

The application says Candywood Whitetail Ranch LLC and Anthony J. Candella Jr. plan to have hunts for white-tailed deer, elk, fallow deer, red deer, rams, sheep, hogs, buffalo, Barbary sheep, red deer hinds (females) and blackbuck antelope. They are expected to have an annual season from August through January.

Across the parking lot from the protesters were about eight men standing by a sign reading “Yes for Candywood” who said they have experience with hunting preserves and support them.

Among them was Mark Thompson of West Middlesex, Pa., in Mercer County, who said he is the father-in-law of Candella’s business partner and the owner of a Cortland deer farm.

Thompson said the myriad safety concerns raised by Justice and others are unnecessary because of the tight control exercised by owners of such facilities. He said there are scores of them in Ohio and accidents are rare.

The hunting typically takes place in tree stands, meaning the hunters are shooting down, not horizontally in a way that would allow bullets to travel outside the preserve.

The ranch is 271 acres, hunters would always be accompanied by a guide, and no hunter will be able to load the gun with ammunition unless he or she is properly located in a tree stand, Thompson said.

Another allegation by Justice and other protesters is that this type of hunting, which is done inside a fence and involves animals raised by humans, is cruel and not sporting because the animals cannot escape.

“It’s not going to be like a thousand deer out there,” Thompson said. Typically there are only a couple of people hunting at a time, he said.

Thompson carried his safety message inside the township hall, where he told about 50 people that the tree stands where the hunting would take place would only be located away from state Route 82 and the clubhouse along Scoville North Road, as a way to keep the hunters away from nearby homes.

During the public-comment part of the meeting, Bruce Geilhard of Vienna said his concern was “about my grandsons getting shot.” The boys live with Geilhard’s son adjacent to the course.

He wanted to know if there was anything the township trustees could do to stop the preserve. Trustees Phil Pegg and Heidi Brown said there is not.

Much like injection wells in the township, the state has regulatory control over the licensing, Pegg said. But licensing for hunting preserves is even more secret than injection wells because the state has no obligation to tell the public anything about hunting preserves before licensing, Brown said.

There would be no way to stop the preserve based on zoning issues because it would be in an agricultural zone and that can be located anywhere in Ohio where at least 5 acres are available, the trustees said.

John Aiken, whose home is adjacent to the course, said it doesn’t seem right that a golf course “that is meant to be in residential area” can be turned into a hunting area in an agricultural district. He is starting a committee of property owners who will research the possibility of fighting the preserve in court.

“I never thought I’d see the day when that beautiful, pristine land would be turned into a slaughterhouse,” Vienna resident Ed Crepage said.

“Nobody wants to live across from a killing field,” said protester Linda Fabrizio.

- See more at: http://www.vindy.com/news/2016/apr/05/both-sides-zero-in-on-captive-hunting/#sthash.TOi5mrhj.dpuf
 

bowhunter1023

Owner/Operator
Staff member
48,879
274
Appalachia
I don't view it as hunting, so I don't think it's really a victory for antis. It's a farm where they let people pay to slaughter their livestock. It's more damaging to those who want to procure their own meat. To each his own, but it's no skin off my satchel if the antis shoot it down. If it was hunting in a state park, I'd obliviously see it differently.
 

"J"

Git Off My Lawn
Supporting Member
56,743
274
North Carolina
Their time would be better served demonstrating gang violence down the road in Youngstown.....
But I guess this is just easier and less dangerous then confronting thugs....
 

at1010

*Supporting Member*
4,944
139
Although I am not a high fence guy. I see antis winning anything with the word hunting being involved is a loss for all of us. This is why I hope they run a successful business and antis don't get any grip on this one.
 

giles

Cull buck specialist
Supporting Member
It's not hunting, it's killing. when it comes down to it, I would t like someone telling me what I can and can not do with my own property.
 

"J"

Git Off My Lawn
Supporting Member
56,743
274
North Carolina
It's not hunting, it's killing. when it comes down to it, I would t like someone telling me what I can and can not do with my own property.

Too you and I it's not hunting.... To the ignorant non hunting individuals it's as much hunting too them as what you and I do....
 

giles

Cull buck specialist
Supporting Member
I think this guy has a valid argument though. The property has already run a business off it for years. If he runs it as a "farm" as others do, I don't think anyone can really say much. Like it or not, it's not illegal. I don't see it any different then going to a slaughter house to buy a hog to roast.

Now, do I agree with it? NO! Geezer nailed it on the head. And if people think that bait sites and such promote illness and disease...hahaha! What about these places?! Shut them down, all of them. But until that happens, the law says they can.
 

Jamie

Senior Member
5,691
177
Ohio
that's why it's important for real conservation minded hunters who identify with any sort of ethical code to educate people about what real hunting is and is not. shooting an animal in a 270 acre enclosure from which it cannot escape is not hunting, and I take offense to calling it "hunting" as much as any anti-hunter is offended by me killing wild animals to eat under fair chase conditions. I make it a point to explain that to any hunter, non-hunter or anti-hunter who does not understand the difference and will listen. like Jesse said, it's nothing more than slaughtering live stock in a big pen. these high fence operations will eventually bring CWD to our wild deer heard by illegally importing captive deer from other states. it's only a matter of time now, and the more of these deer pens there are, the sooner it will happen.
 

at1010

*Supporting Member*
4,944
139
giving into Antis in anyway is bad for hunting. Although I agree with promoting good, habitat management, wild deer hunting morals to the public. I don't think as hunters it is right to shoot down any type of hunting.

A perfect example of this is the Cecil the lion case. I have 0 interest in shooting a lion, however how quick did the media spin that entire situation to reflect hunters in general in a bad light.

It is a very slippery slope folks, very very slippery.
 

Ohiosam

*Supporting Member*
11,708
191
Mahoning Co.
The anti hunting crowd is well connected to the "animal rights" crowd, often the same. These are many of the same folks who think a dog can't live outside, that every pet needs to be spayed and neutered, that meat is murder, furry is immoral, that animal agriculture is cruel, the circuses shouldn't have animal acts, and zoos are horrible.

It's incrementalism, slowly chip away at agriculture, trapping, hunting and fishing every chance they get. High fences are low hanging fruit because it's easy to get public support against it.

I have a friend that raises sheep, he sells quite a few to Greeks, Lebanese and other ethnic people who will by a lamb and slaughter it right there and take it home. Is this really that much different?
 
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Jamie

Senior Member
5,691
177
Ohio
anti's can rail against hunting all they like, they will never stop it of their own volition. Conservation and management are too important, and hunters are the fundamental tool for achieving goals related to such. Public perception matters a lot, though, which is why we need to elevate our standards above shooting captive deer, pigs, goats, elk or whatever in a pen and calling it hunting. I am adamantly opposed to high fence "hunting" operations because it isn't hunting. fuck the media. they gonna spin everything to fit their agenda. seldom do they let facts get in the way of that.
 

Carpn

*Supporting Member*
2,234
87
Wooster
I could care less , its nothing I would ever participate in but if the dude wants to make a business out of it I could care less.
 

Riverdude

The Happy Hunting Grounds Beyond
Supporting Member
10,254
115
Ashtabula, Ohio
I agree, its not hunting but I could get a whole hog from a butcher shop or get one on my own and have alittle fun. Again I agree it is not hunting.
 

Ohiosam

*Supporting Member*
11,708
191
Mahoning Co.
I agree, its not hunting but I could get a whole hog from a butcher shop or get one on my own and have alittle fun. Again I agree it is not hunting.

I agree I've been tempted to go shoot a hog at one. However I have zero desire to go shoot some big buck. Maybe there's a TOO hog shoot/bbq in the future.