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Big Bore Rifle

Jackalope

Jackalope

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Maybe Frank or Sam or some of you others can help with this.

I've been kicking around the idea of getting a big bore rifle. I'm not a guy who buys guns to be safe queens so it need to have some usability. As such I've been looking at the legal PCRs that can be used for deer in Ohio. As I looked over the list of approved big bore rounds like 50-110 I thought to my self "why in the hell", then I got a shitty grin and though "why in the hell not". I think it might be fun to smack a button buck with a 500gr hardcast out of a 45-90. I've narrowed it down to the 45-70 and the 45-90. I really like the 444 but looking over the bullet selection and reloading information I don't see much of a use for it. The 45-70 / 90 looks to be capable of anything a 444 can do with the added bonus of up to 500gr projectiles and a wider range of loading data.

For rifles I want to stay with something more traditional to the round, no bolt guns or Thompson centers. I'm not really looking for a lever gun either as it just seems sacrilege to put a glass optics on a lever gun. So then we have the Ruger #1 up next, Dang nice gun just not sold on it due to sight options. Without an optic it's back to iron sights, and the Patridge style sights found on most guns don't lend themselves to long range accuracy, or even long range for that matter. By "long range" I mean 200-400 yards, after 200 yards a 45-70 / 90 starts to drop like a stone. While I don't really plan to shoot deer at that distance it would be fun to bang around the steel with different loads. Who knows, maybe I'll start to practice for a BPCR event. Either way it goes the scopeless Ruger and lever guns doesn't really lend themselves to longer ranges.

I think this pretty much narrows it down to one option unless yall have any other. Some sort of falling block with a creedmore sight. Maybe a Sharps or a Hi-Wall. Educate me a little here guys.
 
M

MK111

"Happy Hunting Grounds in the Sky"
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Gee Joe nothing like asking for the impossible. Long range with a big bore means nothing more than knowing exactly what the range is so the sight can be set for that range. Just a few yards off and it's out of the kill zone.
45-90 would be a ammo problem unless you reload as the 45-70 is more come place.
A good tang sight can be installed on a Marlin leveraction with no problem and that would be the cheapest way to go. But still have a accurate rifle. Anyone who says leveractions aren't accurate hasn't shot one enough.
Sharps and Win Hi-Walls can be had for a price but a good sight will run 300-400 extra. Winchester did a run of Hi-Walls several years ago in 40-65 and that would make a great long range rifle but since it's a bottle neck not OK for deer hunting in Ohio. I had one but when the price went to $1700 I sold it.
Single shots are accurate but must be placed on the rifle rest the same for each shot or they will shoot to a different location. Been there and done that.
 
Archertl

Archertl

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http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/buffalo.asp

frank hit the nail in the head. I'd choose the 45/70 as well. Another lower cost option would be a h&r buffalo hunter. They are accurate and plenty of them are used in cowboy matches.

I have a 1895 marlin. After doing some work to the stock it is a very nice rifle. Jessie even likes to shoot it. I have one of the 18.5 inch barrel models but marlin does make 22 and 24 inch barrel lenght rifles. There are plenty of different tang and peep sights for the Marlins. There are also lots of different dovetail front sights available.
 
M

MK111

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Archertl said:
http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/buffalo.asp

frank hit the nail in the head. I'd choose the 45/70 as well. Another lower cost option would be a h&r buffalo hunter. They are accurate and plenty of them are used in cowboy matches.

I have a 1895 marlin. After doing some work to the stock it is a very nice rifle. Jessie even likes to shoot it. I have one of the 18.5 inch barrel models but marlin does make 22 and 24 inch barrel lenght rifles. There are plenty of different tang and peep sights for the Marlins. There are also lots of different dovetail front sights available.
Click to expand...

I have a 2nd year mgf 1895 Marlin in 45-70. The previous owner had the barrel shorten 2" and the magazine tube lengthen 2" for 1 extra round. Then he had a Pacmayer recoil pad installed. It'll shoot 3 shot groups at 50 yds touching even with lead bullets. The first 2 shoots went in same hole and I thought I missed the target on the 2nd shot but the 3rd shot just made the hole a 75 caliber hole. I scope it but it's factory D&T'd for a tang sight.
 
Jackalope

Jackalope

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Oh come on Frank. It's not impossible, just really difficult. lmao You can rainbow a 45-90 out there, guys do it all the time at the buffalo silhouette shoots even out to 1000 yards. It's only like 130 foot of drop with a 200 yard zero. Shit, Billy Dixon hammered an Indian at 1500 yards, but i think that was with a big fifty. lmao

In all seriousness though. I never thought of a tang sight on a lever gun. Not knowing much about reloading, I see that the Uberti sharps is rated to 29k. Same for most of the other replica rifles. No shock there as 29K is SAAMI specs for the 45-70. The one that seems the strongest is the Ruger #1 of up to 50k PSI. Not something my shoulder would like to shoot, but just saying it's proofed higher giving a wider range of options. Never know where the rifle will end up tagging along, could be a bear hunt, caribou, elk, who knows. How do the winchester / Marlin / actions hold up to pressure? Not saying I'd ever want to chunk a 520gr cast round hot as I could but you never know. I've shot enough crap with my 30-06, and the older I get the more I enjoy nostalgia. Most times I'd rather take my muzzleloader than the shotgun, and for small game the .22 over the 12 etc. hence the reason I was leaning more towards the sharps. But for practical reasons I'm not above a Ruger or lever gun.
 
"J"

"J"

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Sam might have a ruger #1 or a couple of them for that matter lol.... I know I worked with a guy who had a couple and loved them....
 
M

MK111

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The main problem is the human body can only handle so much. It's like shooting a .410 shotgun then shooting a 3 1/2" slug gun. Shooting big heavy bullets at max speed is no fun. Even with y 45-70 I can only shoot 3 shot groups before my nerves fail me.
Yes the big boys shoot 500-800-1000 yds but the secret there they know exactly down to the very foot the distance and can set their sights accurately. Once you know the bullet speed, bullet weight, wind, and distance they can dial it in. But for hunting it's difficult to do so.
Not impossible at all and if I was younger I would give it a try. But there's not many places that do that type of shooting. Equipment, supplies, plus the time takes a toll on your resoures. But go for it as you will enjoy it.
 
Lundy

Lundy

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Heavy bullets at speed are no fun at all. That is one of the reasons I put custom barrels on my smokeless muzzleoaders. Instead of shooting 300 gr bullets at 2450, I can now shoot a 195 gr at 2700 with much less recoil and kill everything just as dead out to 300 yds.

I have a .444 shooting 265 gr at 2350 that is a point a shoot 200 yd gun and gives me all the recoil I want.
 
A

antiqucycle

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If you reload, a .444 is cheaper to load hunting ammo than a 45/70 that are loaded with much heavier bullets. The 444 will shoot "flatter". Its sad that Remlin has not made any 444's the last several years but if you can find a used gun, buy it.
I have a 444 marlin(first model), a 14" .430 JDJ contender, and a Springfield Trapdoor made in 1878. So I have some opinion of both calibers.

I suspect Ohio will next ok 30/30's and 35 Rem so hunt down a JM 336 to save some bucks.
 
A

antiqucycle

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East Ohio
If you reload, a .444 is cheaper to load hunting ammo than a 45/70 that are loaded with much heavier bullets. The 444 will shoot "flatter". Its sad that Remlin has not made any 444's the last several years but if you can find a used gun, buy it.
I have a 444 marlin(first model), a 14" .430 JDJ contender, and a Springfield Trapdoor made in 1878. Since I reload, I have some opinion of both calibers. The price of reloading is way way less than paying $48 for a box of 20 at places like Woodbury "Outfitters".

I suspect Ohio will next ok 30/30's and 35 Rem so hunt down a JM 336 to save some bucks.
 
"J"

"J"

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antiqucycle said:
If you reload, a .444 is cheaper to load hunting ammo than a 45/70 that are loaded with much heavier bullets. The 444 will shoot "flatter". Its sad that Remlin has not made any 444's the last several years but if you can find a used gun, buy it.
I have a 444 marlin(first model), a 14" .430 JDJ contender, and a Springfield Trapdoor made in 1878. So I have some opinion of both calibers.

I suspect Ohio will next ok 30/30's and 35 Rem so hunt down a JM 336 to save some bucks.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping for the 35 Remington.... I have my grand fathers deer rifle sitting in the locker that I've wanted too use on deer as well....
 
Jackalope

Jackalope

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Thanks for all the opinions guys. I'm looking for versatility also, that's what steered me away from the 444. I want something that can be used here in ohio but would also offer comfort walking through the alders in Alaska, hammering an elk in Arizona, shooting a boar in Texas, or wacking a moose in the Yukon. While a 444 would handle most everything with a well placed shot, you have to admit there's a certain comfort level knowing that you've got a hot 500gr hardcast in the bore if you startle a brownie in those alders.

There's no telling where my hunting addiction will lead me, I have a 30-06 and a 7mm mag, I'd like to have something I can load for kittens or bear.
 
Ohiosam

Ohiosam

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The only reason to pick a .45-90 over a .45-70 is if you want to shoot black powder. .45-70 has enough case capacity for any smokeless load.

The Ruger is the strongest action and if you hand load you can approach .458 win mag performance and recoil. However long range tang sights aren't practicle because of the tang safety. The Sharps absolutely is the coolest SS action but it has a really long, slow hammer drop something to consider but not deal killer IMO. Between the rolling block and highwall I'd lean towards the highwall because it's stronger and more leverage for extraction.

The lever guns like Marlin and Henry can take moderately heavy loads but still well below the Ruger.
 
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Schu72

Schu72

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"J" said:
I'm hoping for the 35 Remington.... I have my grand fathers deer rifle sitting in the locker that I've wanted too use on deer as well....
Click to expand...

I just acquired a 1963 Marlin 336a chambered in .35 Remington that has never been fired. It would be nice to pop its cherry in an Ohio deer season.
 
"J"

"J"

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Schu72 said:
I just acquired a 1963 Marlin 336a chambered in .35 Remington that has never been fired. It would be nice to pop its cherry in an Ohio deer season.
Click to expand...

This one is a pump (tube feed mag) and I'll be using the lever rounds as well....
 
Jackalope

Jackalope

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Ohiosam said:
The only reason to pick a .45-90 over a .45-70 is if you want to shoot black powder. .45-70 has enough case capacity for any smokeless load.

The Ruger is the strongest action and if you hand load you can approach .458 win mag performance and recoil. However long range tang sights aren't practicle because of the tang safety. The Sharps absolutely is the coolest SS action but it has a really long, slow hammer drop something to consider but not deal killer IMO. Between the rolling block and highwall I'd lean towards the highwall because it's stronger and more leverage for extraction.

The lever guns like Marlin and Henry can take moderately heavy loads but still well below the Ruger.
Click to expand...

The main reason I want the 45-90 is nobody really shoots one. 45-70 is a dime a dozen. Something draws me to those rarer rounds.
 
CJD3

CJD3

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I have a odd obsession with the "odd ball" stuff as well.
Its best to satisfy the desire for your own personal enjoyment... but keeping some commonly found calibers/gages is smart for if things dry up. (as I'm sure you would do as well)

For me, it started at the age of 16 by choosing a flintlock muzzy over a percussion.
 
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