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General shell question TOO all

rsmith

Member
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52
Hello everyone, I was shooting some clays today in my yard practicing shooting moving objects and found a weird conclusion. I was shooting Win. Xpert 12g 3in #2 1 1/8oz 1550fps with a invector plus modified choke out of my of my Winchester SXP and patterned it in at 30 yards and couldn't get a decent pattern with it which at 30 yards I thought was a little odd because a mod choke should be good for 30 but I know Xperts are the lowest of the low so I tried it with some Black Cloud and got some pretty good results with the 3in #3's 1450fps but couldn't hit clays with it like I could with the Xperts and that was at about 40 yards. So I went to a full choke to see if that may improve it and the pattern was great at 40 with the Xperts and I was blasting clays left and right. I know that since I stepped up from a mod to full the pattern will be more concentrated but I did not shoot the black cloud at full cause I didn't have time to. Where I am going with this is 1) do any of you use a full choke for waterfowl hunting cause where I will be at it will be anywhere from a 30 to 60 yard shot due to the location and is mostly concentrated with mallards with the occasional wood and a couple pintails. 2) can anyone suggest any other rounds for me to try out? I am just curious as to what you guys maybe using and what may be an effective shell for me to try. I am trying to do a lot of scouting, practicing shooting clays for proper form and leading, and decoy set-ups and calling sequences before actually going out and hunting, I try and be as ready as possible before going out and possibly wounding animals due to improper practice.
 

bowhunter1023

Owner/Operator
Staff member
48,879
274
Appalachia
I shoot my long range choke at our blind as most shots are 25-35 yards and I don't mind the tighter pattern.

I shoot Kent FastSteel and love it. I've patterned 4 different brands of shells through my Benelli Vinci and Carlson choke tubes. The Kent out performed Remington, Hevi-Metal and Winchester.

My novice opinion is shoot what works regardless of what you "should" be shooting.
 

jagermeister

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
18,060
223
Ohio
Lots of factors at play. Not just the brand of ammo but also the SPEED of the load affects pattern density too. Don't waste your time shooting at clays until you find a load patterns good, from your gun, consistently. It is a pricey thing to do shooting all those different brands and speeds, but it's more than worth it in the long run. As duck hunters we go through a lot of shit to get a chance at killing some ducks... All that effort is wasted if you can't kill them when they drop in. I shoot a Kicks High Flyer full choke with my browning, and I shoot Hevi Metal 3.5" #3s. For me, the patterns are ridiculously dense and consistent. I like things to die when I shoot them. And though I have a good dog, I'd much rather send her after birds that are belly up than cripples.

Bottom line, shoot a bunch of loads, different speeds, and try different chokes. Shoot at the center of a 30" circle at 30 yds. If there are gaps or holes that a duck could fly through, move on to another combination. There's no silver bullet answer to your question, as every gun/choke combo is a bit different. Just gotta experiment until you find what works. Once you find a great patterning combination, THEN move on to shooting some clays.
 

rsmith

Member
1,835
52
Put that shotgun away until you get your buck, dammit! rotflmao

Hahah I know I know, I need to get a night off to get back out their but with how work and school is I can't but next week I am done with school till Jan 14th so I will get in a lot more stand time.

But thank you everyone for your advice I will try a couple more combinations and see how things go but hopefully with this camera pull tomorrow I will be more motivate to get back in the stand and away from studying for finals for one night
 
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Carpn

*Supporting Member*
2,234
87
Wooster
Alot of variables . For me I like Kent's or hevi metal . . I shoot 2's ,1's , or BB . This yr I bought a case of Kent 3.5" 1's . I shoot a Carlson close range choke 95% of the time and it i kills stuff out a ways . Late goose hunting I'll use the mid range, and I've never hunted with the long range .
Generally bigger shot performs best out of a little more open choke and smaller shot you can tighten the choke up. Also , I've never had success with loads over 1550 fps . They seem to blow out for me .
 

Kaiser878

Senior Member
2,633
97
ohio
DO NOT SHOOT BLACK CLOUD OIT OF A FULL CHOKE!!!!!

I'm.not a fan of black cloud..... if our going to spend the money buy heavy metal....end of story. I shoot mostly Kent's now.... used to shoot Xperts bit was having patterning issues as well. Anything over 1500fps acts goofy on steel for some reason.
 

bowhunter1023

Owner/Operator
Staff member
48,879
274
Appalachia
The speed issue is the truth. I had some issues killing birds with Remington Hi-Velocity and when I patterned it, I was blow away. I'd have let you shoot me with my back turned and Carharts on at 40 yards. It wouldn't have been an issue. At 1,750 fps, those loads blow apart almost immediately.
 

jagermeister

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
18,060
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Ohio
The speed issue is the truth. I had some issues killing birds with Remington Hi-Velocity and when I patterned it, I was blow away. I'd have let you shoot me with my back turned and Carharts on at 40 yards. It wouldn't have been an issue. At 1,750 fps, those loads blow apart almost immediately.
Yep. It's amazing how many people get caught in the hype of the "speed kills" philosophy, though. Marketing is a powerful mo-fo.
 

bowhunter1023

Owner/Operator
Staff member
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Appalachia
I bought them because I am a Remington guy, but I'm sure there are tons of people that bought it for the hype. I was pretty disappointed to say the least.
 

GoetsTalon

Senior Member
Supporting Member
4,294
128
Walbridge oh
We used cardboard packing paper to pattern our guns and found out after several tests and putting a fresh piece over the old one that the fast steel would only go through one layer. So being shot at fourty yards with carharts on would be safe. Hell i think the wad does more damage lol.
 
I shoot #3 steelshot 3 inch kents fast steel out of a 870 with a long range pattern master choke on 90 percent of my sets. It works well for me.

Pattering you gun with different loads and choke combos is important with steel shot. Any of the loads faster than 1500 fps have been complete shit for me.
 
Not knocking what you guys shoot but, I'm always surprised at the loads that waterfowl hunters use today. I haven't hunted waterfowl for 10 years or so, but things sure have changed. The invent of 3 1/2" chambers and names like Hevi-Shot and Black Cloud in my mind are just a more expensive way to get the job done. I killed a lot of ducks and geese at Killbuck Marsh using a 28" modified Remington 1100 Sportsman. This gun was chambered for 2 3/4" shells only. I used #2 steel for ducks and BB or BBB for geese.

Trick to waterfowl hunting is to let birds get into range IMO. If anybody needs some 2 3/4" steel shot let me know. I guarantee they will kill ducks and geese.
 

jagermeister

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
18,060
223
Ohio
Not knocking what you guys shoot but, I'm always surprised at the loads that waterfowl hunters use today. I haven't hunted waterfowl for 10 years or so, but things sure have changed. The invent of 3 1/2" chambers and names like Hevi-Shot and Black Cloud in my mind are just a more expensive way to get the job done. I killed a lot of ducks and geese at Killbuck Marsh using a 28" modified Remington 1100 Sportsman. This gun was chambered for 2 3/4" shells only. I used #2 steel for ducks and BB or BBB for geese.

Trick to waterfowl hunting is to let birds get into range IMO. If anybody needs some 2 3/4" steel shot let me know. I guarantee they will kill ducks and geese.

Yeah... And you can kill ducks with steel #7s too. Do it every year during teal season. So what? If they make a superior load, whether it be 2.75" or 3.5", why would you not want to use it? That's like saying, I killed deer just fine in '84 with my Bear Whitetail and Easton XX75s. Does that mean it's a waste of money to upgrade to a new bow and carbon arrows??? I totally get what you're saying... but waterfowl hunters use 3" and 3.5" loads of Fasteel and HeviMetal and Black Cloud because they kill ducks BETTER than the 2.75" #2s. In range, for me, is anything inside 40 yds. When I shoot a duck at 40 yds I want it stone dead, not flapping and swimming away or sailing long.