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Looking for suggestions on moisture in crawl space

hickslawns

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I placed a bid on a triplex. They accepted our offer. Contingent upon financing and a more thorough home inspection.

Today I made it over to the three unit, brick ranch again to further inspect. 2500sq ft with 3 units. Roof, windows, soffit, gutters new in 2010. One unit all new carpet and paint. All three bathrooms remodeled last week. Electric heat and water heaters. Attic looked good. Despite only seeing roughly 5-6" blown in insulation, two of the tenants told me their electric bills are really not bad. $70 in summer and $100-120 in winter. Guess I won't worry about giving them anymore insulation.

Foundation. No major gaps in the mortar. Some cracks from the windows to the bottom of the mortar on an angle but no mortar falling out. It was built in 1970. If this was an issue i was concerned with I think it would be much worse in the span of its 44yr existence.

Crawl space? Roomy enough to sit up in and work. Floors looked dry and had insulation under them. Main floor beams look solid. I didn't have to crawl through any standing water or really even much water at all. There was no sump pump either so I assume it does not flood. Didn't appear to have any signs of flooding. There are plentiful amounts of vents which are all closed. What concerns me was the band boards on the north end. Floor joists run east/west. So the north end seal plate and band boards are accessible without trying to patch between floor joists. The south end had "Some" moisture but not any rotten wood. The north end I feel I will need to replace at some point in the next few years. I don't really think it would be something I needed to do right away as it has taken 44yrs to get to this point. I guess the real questions are: How did the rot begin? My best conclusion is simply condensation over time. The north end is probably worse because it never sees sunlight. Maybe they never open the vents? They are all closed at the moment. Fixing or replacing the rotten boards will be more time consuming than materials expensive. This doesn't "sound" like a huge issue but sometimes they become bigger issues than you anticipate. How to prevent future condensation/moisture in the area?

Anyone have suggestions? How to stop the moisture? How to prevent it in the future? Dehumidifier is out as I didn't see a drain in the footer anywhere while crawling the perimeter. They won't drain uphill. Maybe some circulation fan of sorts? Maybe leave vents open all year? Doesn't sound logical but if it keeps a more ambient temperature this might be the solution?

Overall, I don't think it will be a deal breaker. There is a strong positive cash flow. Overall structure and property does not appear as if I will have any other "major" expenses for the next 10yrs or so. I expect a door, carpet, paint, leaky faucet, screen door replacements, water heaters, etc., as normal maintenance from time to time. Roof, windows, bathrooms, kitchens are in good shape for a bit.
 

Buckmaster

Senior Member
14,362
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Portage
Most would dry it out by simply running a fan in that area plus a dehumidifier on the opposite end.

For a permanent fix I would call Ohio State Waterproofing.

I would hope for a major thaw and check it out again before you get too deep in paperwork. This is a great time to sell a house with a leaky basement since the ground has been frozen for such a long period of time.
 

hickslawns

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He had a quote to dig both the north and south ends out. Pressure wash and waterproof inside and outside. Quote also included tying in downspouts to storm sewers although I honestly felt gravity would do just fine. There is good fall from house to road. $3500.

I don't think it will do the job. If so, in have a backhoe. I will do it myself. Preventing future moisture is what concerns me most. Doesn't make sense why it has moisture. It is not sitting low. Plus the day I looked at it first was last week when it was 50.
 

MK111

"Happy Hunting Grounds in the Sky"
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The North sill plate will draw moister from the cold outside and what little warmth there is in the crawl space. Just how it is hot-cold causes moisture. Same for the South end if the air doesn't move,
Like said a fan will help. Put in a sump pump basin in one corner and just run a dehumidifier hose over to the sump pump.
Sounds like you got yourself talked into the deal anyway so just make the seller pay for the fix.
 

Milo

Tatonka guide.
8,184
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It's probably from all the snow that accumulated against the build and as the sun warms the bricks it's melts front the inside out causing the water to drain inwards. Especially on a year like this one
 

hickslawns

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The North sill plate will draw moister from the cold outside and what little warmth there is in the crawl space. Just how it is hot-cold causes moisture. Same for the South end if the air doesn't move,
Like said a fan will help. Put in a sump pump basin in one corner and just run a dehumidifier hose over to the sump pump.
Sounds like you got yourself talked into the deal anyway so just make the seller pay for the fix.

He accepted an offer $45000 less than his original asking price when it hit the market over a year ago. No, I didn't low ball him. He had dropped the price a couple times. I didn't just come in that much lower. haha He never counter offered. He was ready to be done in the rental business. Plus, I really don't think it will be an expensive fix. Rotten boards on the north end to replace in a crawl space with decent depth. I just want to ensure I do not have continued moisture. The floor joists, plywood, and main support beam were bone dry. It was just along the north and south walls.
 

Gordo

Senior Member
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Athens County
Sounds similar to our 'negotiations' when we bought our place. Sounds like a hell of a deal phil, good stuff man!

Keep on expanding your empire!
 

MK111

"Happy Hunting Grounds in the Sky"
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He accepted an offer $45000 less than his original asking price when it hit the market over a year ago.

How the times have changed. My 1st house I bought in Ottawa in 1963 the year before I got married was only $4200. I put on siding, windows, and added a garage. Then sold it in 1971 for 18,000.
Now building lots here sell for 12,000 per ac. and 5 ac. required.
Damn times have changed. Life was so simple then but we didn't have the cash to do anything except live and raise a family.
 
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hickslawns

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He accepted an offer $45000 less than his original asking price when it hit the market over a year ago.

How the times have changed. My 1st house I bought in Ottawa in 1963 the year before I got married was only $4200. I put on siding, windows, and added a garage. Then sold it in 1971 for 18,000.
Now building lots here sell for 12,000 per ac. and 5 ac. required.
Damn times have changed. Life was so simple then but we didn't have the cash to do anything except live and raise a family.

Frank- I read somewhere the cost of housing is actually cheaper and easier now. If you figure in the added income today, it is easier to purchase a home "comparable" to that first home you bought in 1963 today. Here is the difference: In 1963 your average home was most likely a 1000-1200 sq ft 2bd 1bath home. No central A/C. No granite counter tops. Etc, etc. If you were to build a comparable home to the "standard" houses in the 60's comparing income of today, it would be cheaper. Short version: You probably had to use a larger percentage of your income to build that home and budget for it than one would today. Our "needs" have simply changed and people want more in a home thus the reason it seems so much tougher to buy that first house.
 

MK111

"Happy Hunting Grounds in the Sky"
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SW Ohio
Frank- I read somewhere the cost of housing is actually cheaper and easier now. If you figure in the added income today, it is easier to purchase a home "comparable" to that first home you bought in 1963 today. Here is the difference: In 1963 your average home was most likely a 1000-1200 sq ft 2bd 1bath home. No central A/C. No granite counter tops. Etc, etc. If you were to build a comparable home to the "standard" houses in the 60's comparing income of today, it would be cheaper. Short version: You probably had to use a larger percentage of your income to build that home and budget for it than one would today. Our "needs" have simply changed and people want more in a home thus the reason it seems so much tougher to buy that first house.

Now I would have to set down and figure this one out.
I was making about 2.00 per hour. House payment was 42.00 per month. Total electric house electric was 19.00 even billing per month.
Did I mention times have change somewhat.
Oh ya and gas was .25 per gallon and cigaretts were also .25 per pack. Excellent bacon was .19 cents per pound.
I do believe I mention the times have changed. LOL. And now back to reality.
 

Jackalope

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Now I would have to set down and figure this one out.
I was making about 2.00 per hour. House payment was 42.00 per month. Total electric house electric was 19.00 even billing per month.
Did I mention times have change somewhat.
Oh ya and gas was .25 per gallon and cigaretts were also .25 per pack. Excellent bacon was .19 cents per pound.
I do believe I mention the times have changed. LOL. And now back to reality.

And the average man could provide a house, couple kids, and a Chevrolet. Now both men and woman work and can barely make ends meet to be considered a "middle class" family.

Let's look at it further. You could buy 8 gallons of gas for an hours work. To do that today you'd have to make 32 dollars an hour. ($4 per gal avg)

Cigarettes. 5.50 a pack today. You could buy 9 packs on your hourly wage. Today you would have to make 44 dollars an hour

Wages have nowhere near kept up with inflation.
 
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MK111

"Happy Hunting Grounds in the Sky"
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Even though I lived and did well during those times of the 1960-1980"s I'll still stick with today. Life was slower and simpler back in those days but the modern time now has so much more to offer.
Getting started and raising a family (3) there wasn't any extra cash for anything else back then.
Today through carefull planning I can do what I want when I want and no real money worries. Farm and new house paid for. Drive good cars. Even enjoy my 2003 Nissan 350Z sports car with 22,000 miles on it.
Life is good as long as the health and deer hunting hold out.
Turned 70 today. Well sorta since I'm a leap Year kid of 1944.
 

hickslawns

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And the average man could provide a house, couple kids, and a Chevrolet. Now both men and woman work and can barely make ends meet to be considered a "middle class" family.

Let's look at it further. You could buy 8 gallons of gas for an hours work. To do that today you'd have to make 32 dollars an hour. ($4 per gal avg)

Cigarettes. 5.50 a pack today. You could buy 9 packs on your hourly wage. Today you would have to make 44 dollars an hour

Wages have nowhere near kept up with inflation.

Valid points. I didn't live and earn a living in the 60's. Just stating what I had read. I suppose I could argue it both ways. Back then you spent $20 on a lamp and it lasted 30yrs. Now you spend $20 on a lamp and it lasts 3-10yrs. Everything is very different. It was simpler times when I grew up in the 80's. My mom didn't work unless you count babysitting from the house (which was a lot of work). I 100% guarantee you we would not be pursuing this triplex if Erin didn't work. On the flip side, Erin and I are much further ahead of where my parents were when they were in their late 30's. Could we sustain a one income household? Not when we first got married. Now? Probably, but not without major lifestyle changes. Plain and simple, we are in different times with bigger/more expensive needs/desires than in the 60-70-80's.

One more thing: Back then Chevrolets were built and they lasted. You could work on them yourself. You could fix a fender bender with a hammer, some bondo, and touch up paint sold at every auto part store and even some of the hardware stores. Now GM vehicles are plastic, parts are outsourced to China and Mexico, and the UAW and government own them. Thus the reason they haven't turned a profit since they were "bailed out". lmao
 
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MK111

"Happy Hunting Grounds in the Sky"
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Phil I will respectfully disagree on the better cars back then. Or maybe it was the cars we drove. Constant breakdowns but yes easy fix. Tires lasted 5-10,000 miles and constant flats. But 5-10K miles was a lot for the average person who didn't go many places anyway so they lasted a long time.
With the present day high tech machining the cars and trucks are better built and are more dependable that last longer. But so damn over tech you can't hardly repair them yourself. But management decided to use cheap plastic parts to save weight for better fuel mileage.
I'll still stay here in present day.

Back to you property. How's the deal coming along. We sure got side tracked.
 

MK111

"Happy Hunting Grounds in the Sky"
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Happy Birthday, Frank!

Thanks. Just another day it seems. The kids called me and I worked 6 hrs. Got enough play money (that I didn't need) to pay for the new turkey decoy. Life's great when your having fun.