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The fight for Democracy.

Jackalope

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Not sure if yall have been keeping up with the stuff in the Ukraine. A former Soviet union country that still has deep political affiliations with Russia. The Ukrainians have been protesting their government for accepting $15 billion in monetary economic assistance from Russia, while in the same breath turning down an offer from the European Union. The Ukrainians see their government and country sliding back into soviet control. The protests began peaceful but as they lingered the government stepped up their enforcement. At one point even making the right to assemble and protest a crime. As tensions escalated the riot control cops shot tear gas, the protestors responded with molontov cocktails, The police used rubber bullets, the protestors threw rocks.

Here is a picture of Kieve a few years ago before the protests. Oddly enough it's called "independence square"






Here it is today
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In contrast.
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And here is why the right to keep and bear arms in America should never be infringed. Not even in the slightest. See, they can own airguns. The Ukrainian version of "Sensible gun legislation"
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Mike

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I've been paying attention as I have family ties there. Both sides of my family are Ukrainian. My grandparents on my mother's side survived the Holodomor and the German camps. My father's side got out before WWII. I've been watching the live feeds too; listening to the people speak. I can only imagine what that scene would look like if it were going on here.

Live Feed

[video=youtube;Hvds2AIiWLA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvds2AIiWLA[/video]
 
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Jackalope

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Yesterday Barack Obama said he condemns the Ukrainian government for its use of force against the protestors. I wonder if he would say the same thing if tens of thousands of republicans held the grounds of congress using Molotov cocktails, rocks, and baracades. Something tells me he would sing a different tune then. US Government purchase orders for billions of rounds, armored personnel carriers, and even drones would call him two faced.
 

Mike

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Yesterday Barack Obama said he condemns the Ukrainian government for its use of force against the protestors. I wonder if he would say the same thing if tens of thousands of republicans held the grounds of congress using Molotov cocktails, rocks, and baracades. Something tells me he would sing a different tune then. US Government purchase orders for billions of rounds, armored personnel carriers, and even drones would call him two faced.

Absolutely.
 

Huckleberry Finn

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I haven't kept up with it.

My question, Joe, is what is democracy anymore? Is this like the Arab spring that really was just the Muslim brotherhood? Is the EU really more democratic than Putin?
 

Jackalope

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I haven't kept up with it.

My question, Joe, is what is democracy anymore? Is this like the Arab spring that really was just the Muslim brotherhood? Is the EU really more democratic than Putin?

Nope. But they've been through Putin, they know what that's like.

But to answer your question of "what is democracy" democracy is the right of the people to choose, even if they're wrong. And the right of the people to change what they now know is wrong. Democracy is the right of the people to rise up and force change. Nothing more. It's not a perfect system of government. It's not really a system. It's not really a government. It is the right of the people to choose their own path, and force that path when others try to chose a different one for them. The fight IS democracy.
 

Mike

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Nope. But they've been through Putin, they know what that's like.

But to answer your question of "what is democracy" democracy is the right of the people to choose, even if they're wrong. And the right of the people to change what they now know is wrong. Democracy is the right of the people to rise up and force change. Nothing more. It's not a perfect system of government. It's not really a system. It's not really a government. It is the right of the people to choose their own path, and force that path when others try to chose a different one for them. The fight IS democracy.

Nicely put.
 

Mike

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Not sure if these are real or rubber bullets.
[video=youtube;Fns42rViXlA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fns42rViXlA[/video]
 

Jackalope

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I agree. He hasn't given up yet. He's gathering the pro-Russia "troops".

But he's lost support of parliament and the army. Who know who he can hold on to from the police forces. While out of Kiev and voted out of office he's largely useless.