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Biologic and Drury Show This evening

matthewusmc8791

Junior Member
288
46
NE Ohio
Lets start of by saying I really like the Drury's, but today I was really disappointed by an episode. I am a huge fan of getting kids out to hunt, but you gotta be ethical when you do. If the kid can't pull the bow back to have enough draw weight to use a good arrow, etc to take a deer at a responsible range and put the animal down as quickly as possible, maybe you should have more practice and strength training or what ever before you head out into the woods. I just saw Mark take his daughter out on a gun hunt, which was cool and you could see that she was so damn happy to get out and hunt, but the issue I see is she is very scare of the recoil and they let her use the weak ass 223.. She blasted him perfect broadside and ended up taking a monster 5yr old, scoring 160 im guessing, but it certainly look like the deer ran a good 400+ yards before it looked like finally feel over. I know a lot of guys are going to start on me for this and I am not saying the poor kid should be using a 338 or a 416rigby, but at least a 243 with a muzzlebreak with 87gr or 105 grainer would of been more then enough.. Just use the right tool for the job. They showed her taking a nice deer with a bow, so what were the conditions of that hunt, she using a 25# draw with a bow or what???. We all try to do the right thing when we harvest an animal and just because we take are children out, we shouldn't stray from that principle, but teach them that the tool and placement is everything. Just made me want to get other peoples opinion on these things since we are really gearing things toward kids hunting more and more each year.. JMTC
 

bowhunter1023

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Appalachia
.223 will kill a deer with a well placed shot, so I don't see the issue if she was proficient with it and it was legal. Dee shot with 7mms have ran 400 yards before dying. A field point will kill a deer if you hit it in the boiler room. Its all about shot placement and if it took a .223 to get her comfortable and proficient, thats really what matters.

Also, they made a big to do about Taylor's training to get strong enough to shoot legal poundage in Iowa which is 40 pounds. It might not have aired on TV, but was part of the DVD where she first killed a deer with a bow.

Mark Drury is not going to risk doing or airing anything that is illegal or borders on unethical. He's been a fairly good role model on how to introduce and get a kid hooked on hunting.
 
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RedCloud

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North Central Ohio
If you watched the shot it was a little high center chest. If I had to guess that 223 clipped to top of the front lung and punch a hole in the offside lung giving that deer a good little run before his 3/4 lung blew up. Did suprise me that he ran that far but looking back I guess it wasn't as bad as I first thought.

I have double lung punched a small buck and he still made it 75 or alittle more yards and that was with a copper solid 12ga slug at 10-15 yards away. Deer can put some distance down especially the older ones and given that buck was in pretty much open fields he made it about as far as I would expect given the shot placement and caliber used.

Have to remember that not everybody can handle a 270 or larger caliber and be able to drop them in their tracks every time. I have watched more then a few shows with adult PRO's not hit the mark. It happens to the best of them.
 

RedCloud

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North Central Ohio
.223 will kill a deer with a well placed shot, so I don't see the issue if she was proficient with it and it was legal. Dee shot with 7mms have ran 400 yards before dying. A field point will kill a deer if you hit it in the boiler room. Its all about shot placement and if it took a .223 to get her comfortable and proficient, thats really what matters.

Also, they made a big to do about Taylor's training to get strong enough to shoot legal poundage in Iowa which is 40 pounds. It might not have aired on TV, but was part of the DVD where she first killed a deer with a bow.

Mark Drury is not going to risk doing or airing anything that is illegal or borders on unethical. He's been a fairly good role model on how to introduce and get a kid hooked on hunting.

You can bet on this. They even had in this episode where they said they had a roundtable meeting with the Iowa DNR about deer management and habitat. You can bet those boys are making sure all the i's are dotted and T's crossed walking the line.
 

matthewusmc8791

Junior Member
288
46
NE Ohio
I agree with ya, I doubt Mark would be part of the crap that you see on these hunting shows. That's why I watch him, it seems like he has principles and not into just buck kills on film no matter how far the bow shot is.. Cool dude. I just think 223 is way too small even with boiler room hits. I cant see a whitetail getting hit by a 140 or 150gr 7mm broadside and running 400yds. Interesting though. As for the 40# bow that is awesome, guess she worked with her dad all summer to get that going, which is awesome.. Like to see that cuz I bet that vid will make her top 5 over her hunting career...
 

matthewusmc8791

Junior Member
288
46
NE Ohio
Im with ya Red on that... I remember Drury when they first started 10+ years and had lee and his GF(Tiffany aka wife now) stick a buck at 50+ yards right in the ass (damn near missed it, it was so bad) and they said what a great shot... I hear ya,, we all make crappy shots from time to time.. lol
 

Fullbore

Senior Member
6,439
126
South Eastern Ohio
I agree with Jesse on this. I wouldn't hunt white tails in The Midwest or Canada with a .223, but for deer around here and for Taylor's sake, it is quite effective.

I admire the Drury's very much and are prolly the best at making hunting videos. IMO.
 

hickslawns

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I have a buddy who uses his AR in 223 in MI every year. I asked him how far he has to track. He said they drop where he hits them. I smelled some BS. Then again, he has taken as many as he legally could (I believe he said 6 or 8) each year. Most of them are not real big either.

The ammo we have available today helps in my opinion. I would not be using a 223 even if it were legal. Would be fun to hunt with an AR platform, but not 223 for this guy.

I also have a lot of respect for the Drury Bros. I don't think they would cross the line ethically. I feel they have been great ambassadors for the sport in regards to recruiting the youth.
 

MK111

"Happy Hunting Grounds in the Sky"
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SW Ohio
A 223 would be a great rifle round it the shots are placed correctly.
20 odd years ago when I did crop damage permits for a farmer I used a handloaded 221 Fireball with a 40 grain 22 Hornet bullet. A 221 Fireball is just a shorten 223 case.
The longest distance a deer ever traveled was 2 ft. That was straight down to the ground. I shot them right under the ear of between the eyes. No meat damage and the deer looked like it died of natural causes.
So used properly a 223 sized round is a perfect deer round.
 

Jackalope

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This buck was shot with a 30-06 220gr core-lokt soft point. Shot him through the heart after rattling him in out of a cane thicket. He had a golfball sized hole in his heart. He ran about 100 yards the way he was going. Then circled back and ended up dying about 150 yards back the way he came. I would say his entire track was 350 yards and he covered it on a dead run very quickly. Deer can actually run very far after being rifle shot. Most times the drop dead or run 50-100 yards. But sometimes they run pretty far.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1374230912.258447.jpg
 

runhunter

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323
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MK, no offense here, but a perfect deer round, if used properly? And by properly, you mean right under the ear or between the eyes? We're talking about a girl in high school, shooting a mature 250 lb deer, while making a TV show. What part of perfect am I missing here?? It's a terrible round considering the situation. That situation is big farm fed, mature bucks, not fork split tender fawns and small does. Even then it's risky..
A little bit of damage to some rib meat, is a small price to pay to make sure you kill what you're shooting at. It's the marginal shots, that happen to the best of us, where it could be an issue. While there's no doubt a .223 can and has worked for many, it is by far, a perfect deer round. A .22LR could kill a deer, that doesn't make it perfect because the shot hit between the eyes. Sure Taylor may be "proficient" with a .223, and it's good to see she wasn't over gunned, but all things considered, IMO, it's a terrible round. I would have preferred to see her with a little more gun.
 
I just saw Mark take his daughter out on a gun hunt, which was cool and you could see that she was so damn happy to get out and hunt, but the issue I see is she is very scare of the recoil and they let her use the weak ass 223.. She blasted him perfect broadside and ended up taking a monster 5yr old, scoring 160 im guessing, but it certainly look like the deer ran a good 400+ yards before it looked like finally feel over. I know a lot of guys are going to start on me for this and I am not saying the poor kid should be using a 338 or a 416rigby, but at least a 243 with a muzzlebreak with 87gr or 105 grainer would of been more then enough.. Just use the right tool for the job.

JMHO but the most accurate and deadly weapon in anyone's hands is the one they can handle and use efficiently and accurately. Being afraid of a gun is one of the biggest things that can cause inaccurate shots simply from flinching. If it was legal to use, they tracked it down and found it then I am all for it and wouldn't question their ethics one bit.

My wife's first deer, even though it was hit a little back when the deer moved on her shot, went likely 4X that distance before we found it. It was shot with a .50 cal muzzleloader. My dad shot a nice buck years ago with a 30/30, double lung and it likely went 400 yards.
 

Jackalope

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MK, no offense here, but a perfect deer round, if used properly? And by properly, you mean right under the ear or between the eyes? We're talking about a girl in high school, shooting a mature 250 lb deer, while making a TV show. What part of perfect am I missing here?? It's a terrible round considering the situation. That situation is big farm fed, mature bucks, not fork split tender fawns and small does. Even then it's risky..
A little bit of damage to some rib meat, is a small price to pay to make sure you kill what you're shooting at. It's the marginal shots, that happen to the best of us, where it could be an issue. While there's no doubt a .223 can and has worked for many, it is by far, a perfect deer round. A .22LR could kill a deer, that doesn't make it perfect because the shot hit between the eyes. Sure Taylor may be "proficient" with a .223, and it's good to see she wasn't over gunned, but all things considered, IMO, it's a terrible round. I would have preferred to see her with a little more gun.

I agree with most of your statements, It's not the most optimal round available to be shooting deer with. But is also not out of the realm of what I would consider a suitable round. A 223 round is suitable for killing whitetails. A PSP or HP 223 round in the vitals is a devastating wound. The non-expanding full metal jacket 223 round is responsible for killing possibly 100,000 humans over the past 40+ years. What the 223 lacks in mass It makes up for in velocity. Put that velocity behind a rapidly expanding round or frangible round and you have a recipe for a very explosive and devastating wound channel. The 100 yard kinetic Energy of a 55 gr 223 is only about 127 foot-pounds less than that of a 127 gr 308 at 100 yards. 993 vs 1119. And at 500 yards they are only about 15 ft pounds different. A 60 to 70 grain 223 rounds is more than sufficient for deer simply due to the dynamics of the round itself. Is it the most optimal round available on the market today, no. Is it more than sufficient, absolutely.
 

runhunter

Junior Member
323
38
and that's really all Im saying, it will get the job done, but it's not ideal, at least not for me. Was more or less questioning the "perfect round" statement. Maybe it works for her, and that's the beauty of it, it's like a broadhead. Options and preferences are what make it fun, it's just not for me.
 

MK111

"Happy Hunting Grounds in the Sky"
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SW Ohio
MK, no offense here, but a perfect deer round, if used properly? And by properly, you mean right under the ear or between the eyes? We're talking about a girl in high school, shooting a mature 250 lb deer, while making a TV show. What part of perfect am I missing here?? It's a terrible round considering the situation. That situation is big farm fed, mature bucks, not fork split tender fawns and small does. Even then it's risky..
A little bit of damage to some rib meat, is a small price to pay to make sure you kill what you're shooting at. It's the marginal shots, that happen to the best of us, where it could be an issue. While there's no doubt a .223 can and has worked for many, it is by far, a perfect deer round. A .22LR could kill a deer, that doesn't make it perfect because the shot hit between the eyes. Sure Taylor may be "proficient" with a .223, and it's good to see she wasn't over gunned, but all things considered, IMO, it's a terrible round. I would have preferred to see her with a little more gun.

No offense taken. But I believe you missed the whole point of my post. I posted using proper placed shots not a body shot. I wasn't talking about a school girl but myself. I stand by my statement used properly the 223 is a great round.
IMHO
 

runhunter

Junior Member
323
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I understood completely, the post was about Taylor Drury using a .223, and if it was the proper choice, not MK111. I still dont think a properly placed shot when trying to kill a whitetail, is between the eyes, regardless of your training or equipement. The .223 can be a great round, in a perfect broadside, hunting situation, sure.. devastating. The point to all this is, the 223 is not a marginal cartridge for deer, it's a bad caliber choice for marginal shot placement,
 

hickslawns

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I understood completely, the post was about Taylor Drury using a .223, and if it was the proper choice, not MK111. I still dont think a properly placed shot when trying to kill a whitetail, is between the eyes, regardless of your training or equipement. The .223 can be a great round, in a perfect broadside, hunting situation, sure.. devastating. The point to all this is, the 223 is not a marginal cartridge for deer, it's a bad caliber choice for marginal shot placement,

Runhunter- I don't think you will find many arguing there are better calibers. Given M's situation and knowing his abilities, I don't think he made a poor choice. Not everyone should use this caliber, nor should most go for head shots.

Whether or not Taylor should have used this caliber? I don't know. I did not train her. I have never seen her shoot. Given the status of the Drury family I would say the Drury's probably thought long and hard before allowing it. Were they instructing her to take a head shot I might feel differently. Then again, I have no knowledge of her shooting abilities.
 

runhunter

Junior Member
323
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That's what Im saying, saying the .223 is/isn't enough, isn't a statement that covers all hunting situations/all hunters. Variables play into it.... Important thing is, the deer died, and died pretty quickly, so it worked out well for her. That's the goal, and she accomplished it. Can't argue results. I just, for my own taste, would prefer to see kid shoot a little more gun, just in case that marginal hit happens, to try and give them a better chance at recovery.