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Always Wondered. Why PA?

at1010

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Ok Lets try to keep answers semi short here guys.

I am just curious though as to why PA seems to have such large deer numbers?

I have family from back there and they see deer all the time, and my cousin in law says he see 30 to 40 does a night when he hunts.

He has a hell of a great wall too, nothing smaller then 140inch and has about 7 mounts.

I know some areas of Ohio used to be known for these high numbers, but why has PA been able to sustain them?
 

Gern186

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That's a good question...I hunted there once during the rifle season and it was like WW#3...guys shooting at every deer they saw..bullets flying everywhere...it was scary.
 

jagermeister

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I'm just guessing here... and I'm sure there are other factors at play... But I think in PA the hunters have a much different attitude toward deer hunting. Shooting does may not be as "acceptable" as it is here in Ohio. I'm assuming that PA is still one of those states, like MI for example, where shooting a buck, any buck, is priority over shooting a doe. This may be why PA has had to implement antler restrictions. And when your does aren't be targeted as heavily as the bucks, naturally there will be more does producing offspring. Again, these are simply assumptions... I haven't done any research to support these ideas.
 

Jackalope

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Ohio and PA are roughly the same size something like Ohio being 41k sq miles and PA being 48k. The population is 283 a sq mile and 282 a sq mile but PA has roughly 700,000 more people... By all accounts for size and population they are almost identical..

However.. Pa has 16.6 million acres of forest land compared to Ohio's 8.1 million acres. Forrest land makes up 58% of Pennsylvania compared to 31% of Ohio..

In short.. They can't live where there isn't anywhere to live..
 

at1010

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Ohio and PA are roughly the same size something like Ohio being 41k sq miles and PA being 48k. The population is 283 a sq mile and 282 a sq mile but PA has roughly 700,000 more people... By all accounts for size and population they are almost identical..

However.. Pa has 16.6 million acres of forest land compared to Ohio's 8.1 million acres. Forrest land makes up 58% of Pennsylvania compared to 31% of Ohio..

In short.. They can't live where there isn't anywhere to live..

That is very interesting! That makes sense, also

JB I have wondered the same thing, same as WV seems the pure number of deer are off the charts there.

I like to watch a lot of PA hunting videos, and most of the time they are in the woods and deer are just running everywhere. I have never hunted and seen that many deer in Ohio, but might be where I hunt at too.
 

"J"

Git Off My Lawn
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I live close too the Pa line and where I work we have a lot of Pa residents and from my experiance the vast majority of the guys I work with by the antlerless tags and bonus tags and eat them so no one else can shoot does..... That's just their mentality they've grown up with, and until the antler restrictions came in they'd drop a spike or small buck before even thinking about shooting a slick head all day long.... And were very happy too do so, according too them that restriction is nothing more than a pain in the backside.... And they still say with the restrictions they aren't seeing the quality that the state says will come....
 

at1010

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IDK J, I have seen some damn good bucks coming out of PA.

This could be chalked up to QDM, Trophy Hunters, ETC. Just seems like there pure numbers area amazingly high!

Dont they only have certain times of the year when they can shoot does with a gun too?
 

"J"

Git Off My Lawn
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Yep, they are limited on the the days allowed too shoot antlerless, but the areas around my coworkers are good for a good buck or two every year and lots of not legal bucks.... But they are allowed too spotlight and see good bucks on a regular basis so yes they are there just not during legal shooting hours lol.... But it's not uncommon too see dozens of does on a typical sit in certain areas and no legal bucks too shoot....

I stand corrected on the limited days, that has changed and they but the antlerless tags like us and can use them all season.... Sorry for the confusion....
 
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Ohiosam

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PA used to have much larger herds, not sure that is still the case. I have a magazine around here from the ODNR, it was printed right before the first state wide deer season in Ohio in 1954. It talked about Ohio allowing either sex to be shot statewide and it said Ohio managers didn't want to make the same mistakes as PA where you have too many deer for the habitat. Remember that was 1954.

PA hunters have really complained about the slaughter of does(but they still shot them), and antler restrictions. However there has been a marked improvement of the bucks killed the last several years.
 

Huckleberry Finn

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Joe was spot on with the demographics, with the exception that the population is HEAVILY on either side of the state, with nothing in between. And they have some massive forests. Not woods, forests.

Oh, and they've been through the whole decade where they told their game commission to fuck off...
 

at1010

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Either way you look at it, to me

1. PA is killing bigger deer now
2. They have a lot of deer, which makes it fun for hunting

I agree Huck, I would say that Philly has to be the largest city by far in PA. I do not personally know anyone from that side of the state so I can not speak for what they see/kill.
 

Huckleberry Finn

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I wouldn't say that PA hunters are killing bigger deer now. I haven't seen that. I think they are catching up to OH...they have bigger bodied deer in the north central part of the state too (as does NY)
 

finelyshedded

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I've noticed that PA deer hunters hit Ohio in many numbers over the last half a decade. Prolly make up the majority of NR hunters. The nice group of 4 pa hunters leasing next to us drive 10.5 hours one way to their lease and make about 5-6 trips over the course of each season. They told us that Ohio has nicer bucks than their used to seeing in PA. Of course this is just this small groups input.
 

at1010

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I've noticed that PA deer hunters hit Ohio in many numbers over the last half a decade. Prolly make up the majority of NR hunters. The nice group of 4 pa hunters leasing next to us drive 10.5 hours one way to their lease and make about 5-6 trips over the course of each season. They told us that Ohio has nicer bucks than their used to seeing in PA. Of course this is just this small groups input.

As a whole I would agree that Ohio has bigger bucks. I am just speaking from the guys I know. They have noticed a increase in larger numbers of mature bucks.
 

hickslawns

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I think Joe's explanation makes sense. It could also be an explanation for Michigan. I have a buddy that heads up there every year. He takes his AR in 223 caliber and shoots 8-10 deer every year. Claims there are deer everywhere up there. I don't know. Seems like I used to see a bunch when we headed up to Grayling with the guard and it was low people population so there could be a correlation.
 

TurkeyFizz

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We in Pa used to have a ton of deer not so much any more. State land in Pa in many areas has been hammered with all the doe tags and the deer just are not there anymore. Yes around Pitt, Philly burbs there are to many deer but in the central and north traditional hunting areas not so much any more. Pa has always been a state where the first legal buck you saw was killed. Back in the 80's early 90's it was a good bet to see a group of 15-30 deer and not an antler on any. Now in those same areas you can hunt for days and not see a deer. As far as big bucks go we are seeing and killing more but in no way come close to #'s that Ohio has. As an example early in the year someone created a thread on here about shot opps. at 120" and 140" buck. With a lot of guys on here saying they get a couple opps at each year and most saying they usually get atleast one opp. a year in year at a buck in that class. Which is amazing to this Pa boy. So I posted the same kind of thread on a Pa site. Very few if any said they get those kinds of opps a buck that big and many said they have never saw a buck of that caliber in Pa. Antler restrictions have helped and we are getting better. We have much bigger mountains and forests then you do in most of Ohio. So it makes it harder to kill these bucks when they do get some age cause they can be any where. I think as the hunting pressure decreases due age and lack of interest Pa is going to produce some monsters and the deer #'s will come back. There are places here in Pa that you could sit for years and not see another hunter and those big buck know it.
 

bowhunter1023

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Great insight Fizz.

For those of you who have never spent much time in WV, you would be amazed at the number of deer they have over there. However, good luck seeing a buck and even better luck finding a 140+. Sure they are there, but they are few and far between. The sheer number of deer directly correlates to the amount of habitat and the fact that by and large, killing does is/was taboo. I know people who grew up in a regime where if you shot a doe, you were labeled a pussy/queer/sissy/you name it. I spent the vast majority of my week in WV and travel up to a 1,000 miles a week on that side of the river. Last week I saw more deer in WV than I see in Ohio for an entire year, yet I never saw a single antlered buck. I saw a grand total of 5 deer in Ohio last week, but saw one slob of a buck. You have to pick your poison...
 

Monster Raxx

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I am originally from PA and I hunted on the east side of the state by my parents home with agricultural areas around the county, I also hunted in the northwest and western parts of the state. The deer numbers were high in all of the areas but the agricultural area had way more BIG bucks and that was 20 years ago. That area was shotgun only which helps IMO. If you look at the big buck states a number of them are shotgun only or have shotgun only in the best part of the state. No hunting on Sunday I think is also a big factor in there deer numbers. The people I hunted with NEVER shot does, I dont know if that changed but it was like that for a long time. I can still remember driving home after a weekend hunting trip and you would not believe all of the spikes and forks on top of vehicles, but not many does or big bucks. Looking at pics on forums and magazines there has been some great bucks coming out of PA though. I believe I read a number of years ago that the whitetails that were introduced in Kansas were from PA.
 

Buckslayer

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I recently watched a youtube video of a guy hunting opening day of rifle season in PA. He kept filming doe, at one point he said he had seen like 60 doe from the stand that morning, not a single buck. Crazy buck to doe ratio apparently. They put out a bunch of really good videos, Leatherwood Outdoors on youtube..one of my favorite channels.
 

at1010

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I recently watched a youtube video of a guy hunting opening day of rifle season in PA. He kept filming doe, at one point he said he had seen like 60 doe from the stand that morning, not a single buck. Crazy buck to doe ratio apparently. They put out a bunch of really good videos, Leatherwood Outdoors on youtube..one of my favorite channels.

thats what made me bring up this topic! I like watching there stuff, down to earth guys they seem like.